Tarique Plummer's path shows how a science degree can become the starting point for a career that crosses law and entrepreneurship. After studying Biochemistry and Biotechnology, he went on to earn an MBA and a law degree, eventually becoming CEO and Senior Counsel at FARI LAW. His journey highlights how adaptability and a willingness to move across disciplines can turn a biology background into something much broader.
Transcript click a line to jump the video Hide Transcript▴ 00:02 Derek Yo, bro. 00:03 Derek Yo, come back. Why are you littering, fam? Pick it up. 00:07 Derek It's yours. 00:08 Given Why? 00:09 Derek It's your trash. You're littering. Pick it up. You're not meant to litter. 00:13 Given Oh, brother. 00:14 Derek Pick it up. 00:16 Given Bro, I'm not picking it up. I don't care. 00:18 Derek It's yours, right? 00:18 Given What are you gonna do? 00:19 Given You're the littering police? 00:23 Derek You know what? I'm gonna take you to court. 00:25 Given Oh, okay. 00:26 Given You're gonna take me to court. I don't even know what to say to that. 00:28 Given Bro, you can't even take me to court. I have a lawyer. 00:29 Given I'm good. 00:30 Derek Okay, I know, I know a lawyer too. 00:32 Given Oh, okay. 00:33 Given Yeah, yeah, some big shot lawyer, eh? 00:35 Derek Yeah. 00:35 Given Okay. 00:35 Derek In fact, I'm gonna call him. 00:36 Given Yeah, okay. Yeah, do that. Sure. 00:39 Derek Hello? 00:40 Given Oh, ding ding ding, do not disturb, eh? 00:42 Derek Mr. Plummer, could you please come down? 00:47 Given Okay, so where is he? Where is this guy? I'd like— 00:52 Tarique Oh, hey Derek. 00:53 Given What? 00:53 Derek This guy right here is littering. And I want to take him to court. 00:58 Tarique All right. Okay. Let's do it. 01:06 Derek Welcome back everybody to the So You Studied Bio podcast. 01:09 Derek I'm your host Derek and my partner Given is behind the camera. 01:14 Derek And today we're joined with— by Mr. Tarique Plummer. 01:17 Tarique Nice to meet you, sir. Pleasure is mine. 01:21 Derek Uh, we're gonna get straight into it. So for people who don't know much about you, who are you and what do you do now for work? 01:30 Tarique Good question. And normally that's a straightforward question, but for me it's a bit on the heavy side. 01:36 Tarique Now, you know what my name is. Uh, at the moment I own a law firm. 01:43 Tarique Okay, I own a law firm. I also own a consulting company. I also have a trading company as well. 01:49 Derek Okay. 01:49 Tarique And I do some other activities on the side too. So one can say I'm pretty busy. 01:55 Derek Okay. 01:56 Tarique Now, when— if I'm supposed to answer the question about who I am, I can speak about a little bit more about my background. 02:03 Tarique Born in Jamaica, grew up there for the vast majority of time, spent some time in Trinidad. I came to Canada for school. 02:10 Derek Okay. 02:11 Tarique So I came here for my undergrad. I was fortunate enough to have won a scholarship for that. which helped me substantially along the way. 02:17 Derek That's amazing. 02:18 Tarique Some people tell you that I carried myself as somebody who thought he had won the lottery because I'm from a very impoverished background. 02:27 Tarique My family didn't have anything at all. My father was in prison for over a decade, so I didn't even get to know him. 02:34 Tarique It was a struggle to even find food sometimes, so I really appreciate any opportunity I got. 02:38 Tarique And one thing my friends may say about me, because I think when you ask the question, who am I, it's important to identify the traits that have brought me to where I am and how I conduct myself and 02:47 Tarique what excites me, then the one thing they'll tell you is that I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes down to opportunity. 02:54 Tarique If I see an opportunity to grow and change myself or to better my family, to better my circumstances, uh, to reach another level or to meet great people, I am going to take it despite how much work 03:04 Tarique that may be brought to me. So that's who I am from a personal standpoint. 03:10 Tarique And you probably have an idea of who I am from a professional standpoint, but the unusual thing about me that many people don't know is that I'm a science kid. 03:18 Tarique I was a science kid with a background in biochemistry and biotechnology. 03:23 Derek Oh, wow. 03:23 Tarique I was supposed to be a doctor, but life has twists and turns. 03:28 Derek Yeah. So you think the drive or the fire that made you hungry to go seek out different opportunities has taken you further than you could have imagined before? 03:38 Tarique I think so. I, you know, some people may say they envision their entire life or plan what every step would have looked like. 03:46 Tarique When I initially came here, my mind somewhat stopped planning after undergrad. 03:52 Tarique I said, you know what, I just want to complete undergraduate degree and I want to get my Canadian permanent residency, Canadian passport that many people go for. 03:59 Tarique Yeah. And I didn't necessarily think too much about the future. 04:02 Tarique And so it was the awkward phase, and many folks may go through this or might go through it at some point, of when you finish your undergrad and you are trying to reevaluate if the goal that you had 04:14 Tarique set that you wanted to achieve is still the right one for you. 04:17 Derek Yeah. 04:17 Tarique Because then you've got an opportunity to learn who you truly are, what you like, what you don't like, how much things cost, and not necessarily just the financial cost, but the trade-offs with your 04:26 Tarique time and with your energy and so forth, which helped me to reevaluate where I truly wanted to be. 04:31 Tarique Because at one point I saw myself, and I probably still think this too, I want to be the Prime Minister of Jamaica. 04:36 Tarique And I'm like, huh, what do I need to do to reach that point? 04:41 Tarique But there's not necessarily a straight pathway there. 04:44 Tarique And so I had to like duck and weave a little bit to see what can be done. 04:50 Tarique I think the main thing I got from what my long-term goal is, is just to be able to educate myself Put myself in a position where I understand, I know, and I'm able to be able to support the people I want to be served in some way, shape, or form. 05:04 Derek Okay. So you described biochemistry as one of the toughest programs at Laurier. 05:11 Derek What made it hard? Was it the volume of material, the lab work, or the curve that you had to undergo? 05:19 Tarique All of the above. 05:21 Derek All of the above. Oh, wow. 05:23 Tarique I found it challenging in the sense of the volume of work. 05:28 Tarique You had— there were days in which I was having, you know, a 6-hour lab sometimes, and another, you have a tutorial over here, and you may have another lab. 05:36 Tarique So the days goes beyond 10 hours, and you're like, how is this even allowed? 05:40 Tarique And then you have professors who, they don't give you days off. 05:44 Tarique I had days in which were back to back to back. I had a Friday that went on till like, I think it was around 7 o'clock at night and started at 8. 05:52 Tarique I'm like, that's absolutely crazy. I still have a copy of my timetable to this very day. 05:56 Tarique So there wasn't much time in between. That's a memory keeper. 05:59 Tarique I know. It was terrifying a little bit. But at the same time though, and I also found that the content isn't necessarily something that you can finesse. You gotta know it. 06:10 Derek Yeah, you gotta know it. 06:10 Tarique You gotta know it. It's not like an essay where you can just write different things if you don't know what compound is going to lead to what and what reaction is going to occur or how this all plays 06:19 Tarique a part, then you're not going to essentially do well. 06:22 Derek Yeah. 06:23 Tarique And you know, one of the interesting things about the program, which I learned to appreciate, even though I did find that it was hard, I still did well. 06:32 Tarique It's a discipline that I got from the program because the expectations were high. 06:36 Tarique So, in order for you to survive, you're going to have to raise to reach that level. 06:41 Tarique And so, I found very creative ways, in my estimation, but many people may not find them creative, Of being able to rise to the challenge, which meant having a proper friend group who were within that 06:51 Tarique science space, who took it very seriously, who could assist. 06:54 Tarique So be able to teach each other, and they became great teachers, and I learned a lot along the way. 06:59 Tarique Getting on going alongside professors who I admired a great deal within that space, who be able to support me and educate me. 07:06 Tarique Finding other ways of being able to consume information because even while I was working, I was multitasking. 07:12 Derek Wow. 07:12 Tarique Which meant I was recording myself when I was reading. 07:14 Tarique And so when I was like, for instance, working at the dining hall, which was right here, I used to love working the dishroom. 07:21 Tarique Absolutely loved it. People hated it. Why did I love it? 07:24 Tarique Because I could have my earphones in listening to recordings of me reading lectures or what professors have been saying, so I could kill 2 birds with one stone. 07:34 Derek That's smart. 07:34 Tarique So I had to maximize on all time I had, especially when I had to work off campus too. 07:38 Tarique And I was on the bus and the bus ride was, I think it was like 35 minutes one way. 07:43 Tarique I'm like, I could do a lot during this time. Might as well maximize it even more. 07:47 Tarique And another thing about biochemistry which I found a bit on the challenging side was there are midterms all the time. 07:51 Tarique There are tests all the time. There are pop quizzes all the time. 07:54 Tarique There are assignments all the time. There are labs all the time. So you don't really get a break. 07:59 Derek Yeah. 07:59 Tarique And if you do get a short break, maybe for a couple of days until they hit you with something again. 08:03 Tarique So you don't necessarily have a lot of leeway to be able to enjoy yourself as much as you may want. 08:09 Tarique Yeah, but again, if you ask me, would I change my program? 08:13 Tarique Probably not, because I think it made me analytical, it made me disciplined, it made me realize that, hey, even if I don't take away the actual scientific knowledge from that experience, I take away 08:25 Tarique all the intangibles, all the soft skills, uh, everything that helped me to become More determined than my current capacity. 08:32 Derek Okay. So at various points, you were a don, a senator on the Board of Governors, and an international ambassador, a radio journalist, and a chair of the Students' Union. 08:44 Derek How did you decide which of those to take on and which to pass on? 08:54 Tarique I feel like, and I want to go back to what I mentioned before in terms of a kid in a candy store. 08:59 Tarique Because when opportunity pops up, it's hard to say no. 09:01 Tarique Because if I look at all of them, like for instance, being a residence life don, I love meeting new people and I loved, in my estimation, being able to provide some kind of mentorship or guidance 09:11 Tarique because I always view things this way. I want to be able to provide to people what I never had, the support I never had, or how I think it should ideally be. 09:20 Tarique Yeah. And I saw it as a great opportunity to be able to assist first-year students. 09:23 Tarique I had a fantastic don in my first year. His name is Nick. 09:26 Tarique He's a doctor right now, actually a urologist right now. 09:29 Tarique So I respected him a great deal, and I wanted to see if I could do something very similar. 09:33 Tarique At the same time, the selfish part of me recognized that, oh, I could also benefit from this capacity because I could also live on campus and I could also be near my classes, and I wouldn't have to 09:41 Tarique necessarily worry too much about cost because you have to think it's a balancing act at the end of the day. 09:47 Tarique When it came on to things in terms of being an international ambassador, Because being an international student, especially back then, I carried myself with such pride and I loved it. 09:58 Tarique Loved every moment of it. And I recognize that there are challenges that exist for international students and it's important that they have the knowledge ahead of time so they're prepared for what 10:05 Tarique you're coming into. I'm not just talking about the cold, the Canadian cold. 10:09 Tarique I'm not just talking about the difference in academics, but the culture and being able to give people a heads up in terms of, hey, hey, hey, Here's what I struggled with. 10:20 Tarique This may not be the same for you. However, just being aware of this might help to position you better so you can have a head start by the time you get here. 10:29 Derek Yeah. 10:29 Tarique And I found that that was critical. So I kept saying yes to different opportunities that popped up. 10:34 Tarique Yes, money was involved in some of, in many of these activities. 10:37 Tarique Sometimes no money was involved at all, but I said yes because each of these jobs touched on a key talent in my life or something I enjoyed or something I liked, and it brought me to life overall. 10:51 Derek Okay. 10:52 Derek So looking back, do you think the extracurricular load helped or hurt your academic performance? 11:00 Tarique You know, I'll tell you a funny story. I remember because I used to work at the, the AC, the athletic complex, and I was a sports clubs coordinator there. 11:08 Tarique And at the same time, I was also an international ambassador. 11:12 Tarique And so I was— I would help to provide tours to different groups that come, different high schools, guidance counselors that come to campus. 11:20 Derek Yeah. 11:20 Tarique Now remember what I mentioned in terms of when you're in biochemistry, you don't necessarily have much time. 11:23 Tarique You know, normally the class is back to back to back. 11:25 Tarique Now I was notorious for skipping classes or leaving classes halfway. 11:30 Tarique Mind you, even though I'm skipping a class doesn't mean that I didn't know what was going to happen in that class, because I'm waking up at 4 o'clock in the morning or 3 o'clock in the morning, I'm 11:38 Tarique studying, I'm reading. So I have a good idea of what's occurring. 11:40 Derek Yeah. 11:41 Tarique And I have an idea, strong idea too, when my next exam is going to be. 11:44 Tarique And most times I'll touch base with professors so they know, generally speaking, what situation is. 11:49 Tarique And so I'm like, okay, good. So there's a time when I was working, giving a tour to a group of students in the athletic complex, which I also work there too. 11:57 Tarique And after I finished the tour, one of the administrators in the building, a staff member, said, do you ever go to class? 12:07 Tarique And it's a valid question. Did I ever go to class? 12:09 Tarique And I'm like, yes, but I kind of pick and choose which ones I go to, irrespective. I still do the work. 12:14 Derek Yeah. 12:14 Tarique But I pick and choose because I recognize that these extracurricular activities are so beneficial to my character development, also to my professional development too, because I recognize that in my 12:24 Tarique future I may not be fully committed to the science path, but doing all these ones will help me to realize what I'm actually good at. 12:33 Tarique Meet some people, because connections are very much important in this life, and to be able to determine what my next path or next step will ultimately be. 12:42 Tarique So I am the biggest proponent of extracurricular activities because— and it also helps you to meet some of your best friends and best, best advocates, and helps to set you up for you to recognize 12:54 Tarique that, hey, university may prepare you academically But what about all the other things that the world will test you with the moment you finish and no longer have academic challenges? 13:05 Tarique You no longer have midterms, you no longer have tests, you no longer need to be reading and memorizing anything. 13:10 Tarique What about when you have to go ahead and apply for jobs? 13:12 Tarique What about when you have to go ahead and do your taxes? 13:14 Tarique What about when you have to interact with somebody and you're in a capacity to de-escalate a situation or explain something or do a presentation or a pitch? 13:22 Tarique All these extracurricular activities prepare you for those things. 13:25 Tarique That academics may not prepare you for, and that's what I recognize. 13:29 Tarique And one thing I always tell people, because I'm the biggest fan of Laurier at the end of the day, because I bleed purple and gold— don't tell TMU this, but Laurier tries its best to inspire a life of 13:42 Tarique leadership and purpose, to ensure that we have people who know what that means and can be going any space and be able to operate as if they've been doing that forever. 13:53 Tarique And that's something that I take so seriously that to this day I go to different countries all the time and I operate as if I've lived those places forever without having much issues. 14:02 Tarique Even if I don't even know the language, it still goes very, very smoothly. 14:06 Derek Amazing. So your supply chain professor, Michael Halton, said the shift towards business was a departure from biochemistry. 14:15 Derek Do you remember the moment you realized the departure was actually real? 14:21 Tarique I think Dr. Houghton, and I absolutely adore him, I think he's spot on when he said that. 14:27 Tarique We can debate it though. I think one moment when I realized it was real was when I was working with him because also one of his assistants on a couple of projects that were going on. 14:39 Derek Okay. 14:39 Tarique And I had the opportunity because in biochemistry around that time, I think I only had 4 electives in 4 years. 14:45 Tarique Could be mistaken, but I think it was 4 electives. 14:47 Tarique Okay, so I had to be very careful what I picked. And I— and there was a pro— there's a course called Directed Study, and I could have done my Directed Study in anything in the science-related space, 14:56 Tarique which is basically you're being able to, to create what you want that course to essentially be and what you want to work with. 15:03 Derek Okay. 15:03 Tarique And I chose to do it naturally, instinctively, very quickly in the business space with him and supply chain right off the bat, even though I wasn't in business. 15:12 Tarique Didn't even do any supply chain courses. I was so interested and keen on doing that, and it was throughout doing the research and drafting the paper that I realized, I'm like, why am I so excited by this? 15:26 Derek True. 15:28 Tarique Why do I feel like I'm connecting a lot more with this? 15:31 Derek Yeah. 15:32 Tarique And then I recognized, you know what, my love or passion is perhaps somewhere else, not necessarily in business, but somewhere else for sure. 15:40 Tarique And I— and that's the moment I realized that I think he's right about the overall departure. 15:48 Derek How did the MBA change the way you thought about the biochemistry degree? 15:53 Derek Did it feel wasted, or did you start seeing the connections? 15:57 Tarique I think at the end of the day, one thing I'll say is that the biochemistry degree was never wasted. 16:01 Tarique I put— and to each their own— I put more value on soft skills, the intangibles that I got from the program, the analytical skills, the determination, uh, the persistence, resilience overall, those 16:16 Tarique were substantial. And also, many people don't realize this, but biochemistry had a lot of math to it too. 16:20 Tarique An MBA program has a lot of math to it as well. Absolutely critical. 16:23 Tarique And being able to figure out things in a particular chronological order and sequence and determination and how you organize and gather your facts and how that plays a part in the end of the day. 16:33 Tarique I thought that the biochemistry degree actually prepared me very well for my MBA program, which I think I got a 3.97 GPA at the end of the day. So I did very, very well in there. 16:44 Derek Wow. 16:44 Tarique Without having a business background overall. So I find that it was perhaps the perfect launching pad or foundation to help me with my business pursuits or with that MBA. 16:57 Tarique So no regrets on that standpoint. Some may argue that, hey, if you do a business degree, then the MBA would be easier. 17:03 Tarique I'm like, I still did pretty well with the science degree because I'll always say when they put you through the fire, which I always think biochemistry does, and that is not a criticism of the 17:13 Tarique program, it is more of a compliment because sometimes they say what, diamonds are made under pressure. 17:19 Derek Okay, so what made you choose law specifically out of all the directions an MBA could have taken you to? 17:32 Tarique So there are many reasons. There's not necessarily one specific one, but there are many reasons, and I could identify some of the reasons. 17:41 Tarique One, I had a good group of friends, friends, associates, people I was involved in who were saying that, you know what, this is a good fit for you. 17:48 Tarique I had one friend in particular, she was going to medical school, who actually wanted me to go into the law school at her med— at her school, university, McGill, thereabout, who was very much 17:59 Tarique insistent for me to go ahead and do it. Yeah, and do it. 18:03 Tarique At the same time, I had political aspirations. And I remember when I was back in Jamaica, uh, because most of my family members are very much involved in grassroots politics, and I had an opportunity 18:13 Tarique to meet one of the former prime ministers at one point. 18:16 Tarique And he was a lawyer. And I think he alluded to— and he spoke to me very briefly when I was young And I think he said a couple lines, and he said, I want to go into politics, I need to become a lawyer 18:24 Tarique first. Even if I don't go into politics, law is that space that allows a person to be a jack of all trades. 18:34 Tarique You can learn different spaces. You— every single day is an opportunity for you to gain different knowledge in a year that you probably never thought of or learn something else about. 18:43 Tarique And then the more I did different activities, because many people notice about me is that I used to work I worked in plastic engineering. 18:49 Tarique I worked in regulatory consulting. I worked in university affairs. 18:54 Tarique I worked in, honestly, if you name it, dining facilities or food. 19:01 Tarique I worked cleaning too for a long time period. I did almost everything. 19:05 Tarique And I recognize that there are intricacies and legal factors associated with it, but sometimes the law is not really law. 19:13 Tarique It all has to do with the application of knowledge, regulations that may exist, and know how to put them forward to achieve the overall outcome that you want to. 19:23 Tarique So I chose law because it was beneficial to the kind of individual I am, jack of all trades. 19:30 Derek That's amazing. So you did your JD at the Lincoln Alexander School of Law and graduated in the top 5% of your class. 19:38 Derek Was law school harder or easier than biochemistry? 19:42 Derek And also, in what ways could it have been harder or easier? 19:46 Tarique Many people don't believe this, but I'll actually say that I found biochemistry to be a lot harder than law school. 19:52 Tarique A lot harder than law school. I did spend a vast majority of my law school away. 19:57 Tarique I— because I was— I had my own business around that time period too, and so a lot of my consulting business involved me traveling, and I spent a lot of the time on the road, a lot of time in planes. 20:08 Tarique elsewhere overall. Uh, and so really interesting. 20:12 Tarique Also from the schedule on the law school side to be a lot lighter than it was on the biochemistry side. 20:17 Tarique Biochemistry had so much readings. Law school also had so much readings, but on a biochemistry side, it's very much you need to know it. 20:25 Tarique It's facts-based. On the law side, if you get the gist of it, then you'll be able to make property— 20:30 Derek You can make sense of it. 20:31 Tarique Exactly. So you don't necessarily have to Yeah, one-to-one with the— 20:37 Derek yeah. 20:38 Tarique That's exactly what it was. So at the end of the day, I would say that biochemistry was harder, and so the preparation was fantastic for the legal aspect of things, which I didn't necessarily find 20:47 Tarique the most challenging. I found it actually to be okay. 20:52 Tarique I wouldn't say it was easy, not at all, but I actually found it to be okay, and that biochemistry prepared me for that very, very well. 20:59 Derek Okay. Did you consider more science-adjacent legal paths, much like patent law, health law, pharmaceutical regulatory, before landing on a broader practice that you're doing now? 21:14 Tarique And I thought about that too. And by the way, I used to work in sales too, and pharmaceutical sales for a brief time as well. 21:21 Tarique And I thought about going that particular direction, especially science patent law. 21:27 Tarique And I was introduced to it because I worked in different firms, different organizations. 21:32 Tarique However, I recognized that my appetite is quite broad, so that alone wouldn't satisfy me. 21:38 Tarique I wanted to be able to do a lot more practice areas overall, which has led to me having a full-service firm which allows me to be able to dip my toes and my fingers in all these other areas. 21:49 Tarique So one can say I did tried my best to focus a little bit on those areas in different spaces, but then I just recognized, you know what, got to be honest with yourself. 21:59 Tarique Just, it just wasn't for me to be my one and only. 22:03 Tarique I had to experiment a little bit more than that. So one can say I wasn't monogamous in that sense, uh, but the different areas I brought to were beneficial. 22:14 Derek Could you tell us a bit more about your law firm, Fari Law? 22:18 Derek What do you guys do and what cases do you usually touch on? 22:21 Tarique Okay, so Fari Law, full-service law firm. Uh, it's a firm that's very much unconventional because traditional firms may just be in one space or one location. 22:32 Tarique For Fari Law in particular, we, we do have more of a remote-first kind of approach to give people the opportunity to work from wherever, be wherever, to meet the clients wherever they want. 22:43 Tarique And a lot of our clientele are international too. 22:45 Tarique Whether they're from Africa, whether they're from the Caribbean, whether they're from Asia, or they're from Europe. 22:50 Tarique It's that kind of firm. It's that firm who we try our best to be your one-stop shop. 22:57 Tarique So instead of you needing to have 2, 3 different groups or different lawyers for different matters, it'd be a family matter, a real estate matter, immigration matter, you know that we have the degree 23:05 Tarique of competence overall to support you. So you don't necessarily need to be able to go anywhere at all. 23:10 Tarique And that's what we really want to do, be able to support our people For the entire duration of their journey with all other aspects of their life. 23:17 Tarique Because we do believe that helping people with one area in silo sometimes may not be in somebody's best interest because different areas of your life are always connected. 23:29 Tarique And you need somebody to be able to see the full picture on how all these connections play a part and be able to give proper consideration and account for them. 23:37 Derek Mm-hmm. 23:37 Tarique Because just that overall perspective might change the entire game. 23:41 Tarique Okay, now the firm also takes very seriously social justice-related issues, being able to support people who are from minority-related groups. But at the same time, we don't say no to anybody. 23:52 Derek Yeah. 23:52 Tarique We try our best to come alongside individuals from different parts of Canada, different parts of the world, to be able to provide support, and we try to make it tailored to what they truly need. 24:03 Tarique The team right now is around 10 people, thereabout, and it's growing. 24:07 Tarique And our long-term plan is within the next 3 to 5 years to be mid-sized, probably in excess of 50 employees. 24:12 Tarique Are we on track for that? Yes. Is there a lot of work? 24:15 Tarique Yes. Is the team growing from strength to strength? 24:19 Tarique Yes. Can we develop more and have more practice areas? 24:25 Tarique Potentially we can, and we're always looking for those opportunities to be able to support. 24:28 Derek Mm-hmm. 24:29 Tarique But very grateful for the firm, what the firm has done so far, the team of people I have who I really appreciate. 24:36 Tarique Because realistically, I am not the firm. The firm is everybody, all their contributions, and that's how we keep operating on a daily basis. 24:45 Derek So I'd love to touch on some instances from your past. 24:51 Derek Okay. 24:51 Derek So is it okay if I show you a couple of photos and you can please explain them? 24:54 Tarique Let's go ahead. 24:55 Derek Okay, so the first that I have with me is a photo of you being celebrated. 25:02 Derek Yeah. 25:03 Tarique Could you please tell the audience So I remember this photo very vividly, or this moment quite vividly. 25:12 Tarique It was when I found out that I was elected as the first international student to be the Students' Union president. 25:20 Tarique Oh my goodness, congrats! For Wilfrid Laurier University. 25:25 Tarique It was a tough campaign overall, but a campaign that I enjoyed. 25:30 Tarique Many people don't know this, and I'll tell any young politician this: a campaign is not won during campaign period. 25:37 Tarique A campaign is won before campaign period even starts. 25:41 Tarique And unconsciously, I was already making connections with many different groups and people through my university time. 25:47 Tarique I probably was involved in like almost all of them, and so knew all the players in the game, and they knew who I was and knew my personality and knew what I was trying to achieve. 25:55 Tarique So by the time the election period came around, I had told my campaign team, and they'll tell you this vividly, it's not about winning. 26:02 Tarique Just have a good time. Just enjoy yourself. Because I wasn't really worried too much about the results because I was pretty confident that it would probably go in our direction. 26:09 Tarique But even if it didn't go in our direction, life is about experiences, and that was going to be one of the experiences. 26:15 Tarique And I really was excited and happy for that opportunity. 26:19 Tarique Did I know it was going to happen? You know what? 26:22 Tarique I didn't. But I had this huge feeling. organic chemistry professor who was the chair of the biochemistry department when I just came to Laurier. 26:31 Derek Okay. 26:32 Tarique And he will tell you that— and he was also my thesis professor too at the end of my undergrad. 26:37 Tarique So, and he will tell you that in— when I just came from Jamaica and I came to Laurier, I think I told him and I also told the director of Laurier International at that point too that I want to be 26:52 Tarique Students' Union president. In my first, first couple weeks here, I think this photo demonstrates the manifestation of that thought. 27:02 Tarique Yeah, one I'm very grateful for. And I also see an individual here who currently works at my firm. 27:07 Tarique Oh, he's a paralegal at my firm at this very moment. 27:10 Tarique So full circle. And that also shows the power of manifestation, people. So thank you for this. Appreciate it. 27:17 Derek So that's what we have for the first half. We're gonna get right into the second half right away. 28:19 Given And we're back for the second half. Thank you, Tarique. 28:21 Given So the first question that I have for you is, do you think that a science degree makes somebody a fundamentally different lawyer? 28:32 Tarique I'm sure that people who are, who are in non-science areas may debate with me on this one, but I do think it does. 28:39 Tarique In my estimation, I think it makes somebody more analytical, more fact-driven in their overall approach and determination, more to the point many times, and able to better organize relevance versus 28:51 Tarique irrelevant material versus immaterial information overall. 28:55 Tarique And it allows you to think differently. And so your thoughts are cleaner, your approach is a lot more methodical. 29:04 Tarique procedural, direct overall. One can say at the same time that there are some drawbacks to it because you may not be able to, to write as fluently and as a lot as other people in non-science areas may 29:20 Tarique be able to. But at the same time, when it comes on to your overall approach, the analysis piece is the most critical piece. 29:26 Tarique Any lawyer will tell you that legal analysis is the fundamental of what we do. 29:29 Tarique Know what the facts are, being able to apply it accordingly. 29:33 Tarique Science-based helps you to achieve that at the end of the day. 29:37 Tarique Maybe folks may say that it's not as direct overall. 29:42 Tarique However, you can essentially find where the connections ultimately are to make it work. 29:47 Given There's like a method to the madness. 29:49 Tarique There is always one. And thank you for saying that's a perfect way to phrase it. 29:52 Derek Awesome. 29:53 Given Thank you. Now, I did want to follow up with Some of these pictures that we have here. All right. 29:58 Tarique More embarrassing ones. Let me see them. 30:00 Given So this one is one that we were really a big fan of. 30:04 Given So I'll show the camera and then I'll hand it to you and let you explain a little bit about this. Oh. 30:12 Tarique So this one is special. One, this was during a campaign season. 30:20 Tarique So during my time at Laurier in which I was very much involved in student politics. 30:25 Tarique And the white glove, a couple of reasons why I wore the white glove. 30:30 Tarique It spoke to Michael. I love Michael Jackson, biggest fan of him. 30:34 Given Okay. 30:34 Tarique And one of the next reasons too is because, and this is a bit on the personal side, I have a bit of an insecurity. 30:39 Tarique Not many people may tell you this, that my hands sweat. 30:42 Tarique My hands sweat all the time, all the time. But I love meeting people and I love shaking people's hands. 30:47 Tarique So I'm like, I'm like, okay, how can I meet people and shake their hands and for them not to feel uncomfortable? 30:54 Tarique But at the same time, I was also working my campaign team and trying to figure out how can I improve overall visibility? 31:01 Tarique Okay, what can be your trademark? Yeah, so we're like, you know what, let's, let's think a little and think about this a little bit more. 31:08 Tarique And it's— and simultaneously we're saying, what am I trying to achieve? 31:13 Tarique And I said the reason I'm trying to go into politics, trying, trying to be Students' Union president, was because I want to help all the different groups that I was a part of. 31:20 Tarique And if anybody goes back and look at what my campaign platform was, they'll see that I had very specific practical things that affected different groups around campus. 31:31 Tarique Because I wanted to help these different people. And so one of my campaign managers, she suggested or coined the helping hand. 31:45 Tarique And it was around that time too, I'm not sure who it was at that point who says, why not wear a glove? 31:50 Tarique And I'm like, you know what, let's wear a white glove. 31:54 Tarique And it's something like, okay, let's do it, because one, it's striking, you notice it. 31:58 Given Yeah. 31:58 Tarique 2, it makes me more comfortable shaking people's hands. 32:01 Tarique Uh, 3, it speaks to what our slogan essentially was, a helping hand ultimately. 32:06 Tarique And then we attached it to different roses and we handed it out to different people so they could all Remember and see what we're trying to achieve. So that's truly what it spoke to. 32:17 Given So it was like a triple threat move. 32:19 Tarique It was, it was. It wasn't deliberate, it just came through a lot of policy discussions. 32:23 Tarique I was like, okay, all right, this is what it was. 32:25 Tarique Really enjoyed it. I should go back to it. I probably will in the future whenever I run in politics. 32:29 Given That's amazing. So I mean, we see that you're always sort of— you're making connections, you're connecting with people, and one of the I think beautiful connections that we find that you make is you 32:41 Given mentor racialized students that are heading towards law school now. 32:46 Given I guess what's kind of something common that you find yourself telling others maybe that you didn't even know yourself? 32:55 Tarique One thing I do, I tell a lot of people is that don't be so hung up on the grades. 33:01 Tarique Don't be. You'll find out if anybody decides to go to law school is that you don't necessarily need to have perfect grades, straight A's to be able to enter. Focus on being a holistic individual. 33:17 Given Okay. 33:17 Tarique That's the most critical thing. Yes, be okay in academics, at least be able to understand, know what you're doing, carry yourself, but focus on the other aspects of your life. 33:26 Tarique What you do in community, what you do at home, what you do to improve your own self, your own skill set. 33:31 Tarique Because those give you stories, it gives you experiences, and it makes you into a better human being or individual. 33:37 Tarique So character development is absolutely critical. And other people may tell you to focus on the grades, get perfect on the LSAT, get great grades in undergrad or your master's to be able to move 33:45 Tarique forward. I'm like, yes, those are important, but they're not the be-all end-all. 33:51 Tarique Holistic individual, holistic development is what I advocate for the most. 33:56 Tarique And so sometimes I will say, you know what, I know you have to study, But, you know, go and volunteer a little bit. 34:02 Tarique Go do this with this individual here because that's meaningful. 34:05 Tarique And people will see and want to see beyond the grades. 34:09 Tarique They want to see that there's actually a person inside there. 34:11 Tarique They want to see that you actually care. They want to see that you actually put yourself in the spaces that are meaningful, that you're not just doing this to get a law degree just because you want 34:18 Tarique to make money. They want to see that you actually have other passions out there. 34:22 Tarique And so my encouragement to people has always been explore, learn, and try to gain skill sets and experiences beyond just the grade and the undergrad. 34:39 Given Well, I mean, we know that you do that, and I think I have an example of that here if you want to talk a little bit about this. 34:47 Tarique Yes, yes. So this, this, this one is interesting. 34:54 Tarique Now, I've worked many jobs. At one point when I was at Laurier, I think I had around like 6 jobs or 7 jobs. 35:02 Given You're a real Jamaican. 35:04 Tarique Yeah, hustler, right there. And one of the jobs, again, I enjoyed working at a dining hall. 35:10 Tarique I enjoyed it so much, uh, and I worked at a dining hall for a year and a half, close to 2 years thereabout, and I was Speaking to you about that before, and then during my campaign season, again, 35:22 Tarique something unconventional as well, I thought about the opportunity of partnering with the dining hall to be able to also help in increasing voter turnout because not many universities have high voter 35:32 Tarique turnout and Laurier is no exception at all. And one of the best ways to do that is being present and being able to serve. 35:39 Tarique And also it coincided naturally with the helping hand narrative too. 35:45 Tarique And so it was a great opportunity for me. I wasn't paid for this to be able to serve students again. 35:50 Tarique I worked there for many years anyways. I was used to this too, in their own space, which was fantastic. 35:57 Tarique To that point, after I was elected too, we also had an Iron Chef challenge with the president of the university at that point in time, and I did it with my vice president, Doris O'Shaughnessy, and we 36:08 Tarique definitely won. We had a jerk chicken sandwich, which was fantastic. 36:11 Given Okay, okay. 36:12 Tarique So the Jamaican culture overall was good. But this speaks to the fact that I never say no to opportunities, and I try to connect people, and I try to find ways to serve, and I never think anything is 36:24 Tarique above, anything is below me. And that's the type of individual that I am. 36:29 Given Yeah, well, that's really, I mean, amazing. And I guess one of the things that I would wonder is if there is a student— because your story is quite inspiring, and there's a lot of great examples of 36:40 Given things that you did in your undergraduate that help to improve your character, that grow the different areas needed just to, you know, experience the world, get an idea of what you might be 36:51 Given interested in. What advice, if there was a student who was in biology or biochemistry who might be interested in emulating the sort of path that you took, what advice would you give to a student like that? 37:04 Tarique The first thing that I would say to them, and it's perhaps been the only 2 things I'll say, Okay, the one— for sure, the first one is participate in extracurricular activities that have nothing to do 37:15 Tarique with sciences. Not because I'm encouraging departure from the sciences, but I'm encouraging exploration overall for you to see what makes you feel the most alive. 37:26 Tarique That allows you to see if you're comfortable, you're not comfortable, and to figure stuff out. 37:31 Tarique Which then leads me to the next point, which is point number 2, which is— and I've said this many times back in my undergrad— my MBA and all other, all other educational journeys is learn how to 37:42 Tarique become uncomfortable, become comfortable with being uncomfortable. 37:48 Tarique Absolutely critical just to be in different spaces because one thing many people say about science students is that they're introverted. 37:54 Tarique They don't talk. They don't like to associate with people or groups along that side. 37:59 Tarique How about trying to interact with individuals a lot more How about even though you have a lot of work to do, still making time to do things that you never thought to be possible, still enjoying your 38:09 Tarique journey along the way and recognizing that life is more than memorizing things and getting a high grade overall? 38:18 Tarique Because I always say to people, if— imagine that you are 75 or 80 on, on your deathbed, are you going to regret that you didn't study more? 38:29 Given No. 38:29 Tarique Are you gonna get that A+? Are you gonna remember all the A+'s you got or the B's you got? 38:33 Given Yeah. 38:33 Tarique What have people said when they're on their deathbed? 38:36 Tarique They talk about the experiences that they've had. 38:38 Tarique They talk about the stories that they have. Very few times people are talking about the grades that they got or whether the book that they studied. 38:45 Tarique No, they're talking about real life things. And so my encouragement for individuals is to be more active and more present in real life experiences overall. 38:55 Given And that's amazing. I mean, being present is— I think it's easier to say probably and harder to do. 39:04 Given Like, when you're in the moment, being able to be mindful of what's going on around you and appreciate what you have at the current time. 39:12 Given And I kind of wonder, like, is there anything that you miss or you did appreciate about biochemistry that you wish you could do a little more of? 39:25 Tarique So the piece about biochemistry I missed was— I had to wait many years for this— 2 things. 39:34 Tarique One was the freedom to, to basically for an entire semester to construct your own lab. 39:42 Given Okay. 39:43 Tarique Your own lab. Because for many, many years you're just being given a lab manual and you're told to do this lab and write up a lab report. 39:50 Given Okay. 39:51 Tarique By when you reach your 4th year in biochemistry, I think we had an entire semester in which we had to be able to determine what we want the lab to be. 40:00 Given So you get to, like, come up with your own stuff, essentially. Okay. 40:04 Tarique What you want the procedure to be, to actually go about the experimentation and find what the outcome may ultimately look like. 40:11 Tarique So you're now the designer of it all. And that alone, that freedom excited me so much that I was going to that professor's office all the time because I wanted to do a good job. 40:23 Tarique And I was surprised at how interested I got at that point in time. 40:26 Tarique I was like, I was really, really fascinated. I'm like, huh, oh, so Black chemistry's interesting. 40:33 Tarique And then another key piece that I really enjoyed was, and I was very fortunate for this, Mm-hmm. 40:41 Tarique when I was doing my thesis, It was more of a joint biochemistry and sociology thesis. 40:46 Tarique So I had 2 professors who were supporting me, okay? 40:49 Tarique Dr. McNeill and Dr. Eileen Wood, okay? And we're focusing a great deal on metacognition, learning, understanding how students improve in this— in sciences-related space. 41:04 Tarique Very fortunate to have gotten that. And I think that particular research I enjoyed so much because it showed what worked, what light bulbs would go off in people's heads, how to get them to do better 41:17 Tarique ultimately, and what the data ultimately looks like to govern how professors and other groups could be able to articulate or teach a particular subject, especially something as tough as organic chemistry. 41:27 Given Yeah. 41:28 Tarique Very, very difficult sometimes. 41:29 Given It's hard. Yeah. 41:31 Tarique It's really challenging. 41:32 Given Yeah. 41:32 Tarique And I, I enjoyed that part. So I think those 2 pieces are really, really, really, really loved, especially people, because not many, many times people don't really smile when you buy a chemistry kit. 41:43 Tarique Everybody's always so stressed. Yeah, always so stressed. 41:46 Tarique And I could say that back in my days, I was kind of a partial clown because I always found ways to bring joy into the space. 41:54 Given Exactly. 41:54 Tarique And I love the presentations. I love those so much, even though sometimes it had to do with things I had no idea what I was talking about. 42:01 Given Yeah. 42:02 Tarique But it was still fun. It was I did get the best thesis presentation award back in my time too. 42:08 Given You're killing everything. 42:09 Tarique Which was fantastic because I'm like, I'm not even really a genuine science student, but I'll take the award anyways. 42:14 Tarique But I do miss the twists. I do miss the opportunity to have the freedom to create. 42:21 Given And do your own kind of thing. 42:22 Tarique And do my own thing. And I miss the people too because the people are very interesting to get to know them beyond them just being professors or beyond them just being teaching assistants. 42:30 Given And if you, if you could kind of do it back over again, do you think you still would have picked biochemistry for your undergraduate and done it all the same way? 42:39 Tarique I would have still picked biochemistry. I may would have changed a few things. 42:43 Tarique I would have— one thing I don't talk a lot about, but I was a teaching assistant too. 42:49 Tarique Yeah, I was helping students in labs as well, and I really enjoyed that a great deal. 42:53 Tarique So I would have still done biochemistry all over again. 42:56 Tarique I am not gonna lie, I would have. I perhaps would have been a bit more measured in terms of my focus, but I would have. 43:03 Given Okay, well, thank you so much, Tariq. I mean, this has been a wonderful interview and we've learned so much. 43:08 Given And thank you to our audience for tuning in. This has been the 4th episode of the So You Studied Bio podcast, and we will catch you on the next episode. Take care. 44:16 Given A huge thank you to Wilfrid Laurier University for hosting us today. 44:20 Given Having the campus as our backdrop made this conversation feel right at home. 44:24 Given If there's one thing we hope you take away from today's episode, it's Tariq's message about exploration. 44:30 Given Don't be afraid to look outside your immediate path. 44:33 Given Some of the most meaningful growth happens when you're willing to step into unfamiliar territory. 44:39 Given For anyone who'd like to connect with Tarique or learn more about his work, you can find him at Fari Law in Toronto. 44:46 Given And to you, our audience, thank you for tuning in to episode 4. 44:50 Given And we'll hopefully catch you next time on So You Studied Bio.
