Dr. Ryan Albert brings a biology foundation into a career focused on movement, rehabilitation, and long-term health. With experience in chiropractic care, spine rehabilitation, acupuncture, strength training, and clinical education, he explores how understanding the body can become practical work that helps people move better, recover from injury, and stay active for the long run.
Transcript click a line to jump the video Hide Transcript▴ 00:00 Derek Let's go! Give me that! 00:02 Derek Your old age isn't anything! Let me see, let me see! 00:05 Given Ah! My back! 00:08 Derek You're back? 00:09 Derek Okay, drop it, drop it, drop it, drop it! Bro, I told you you're getting old. 00:13 Given Bro, shut up! I can't deal with this. 00:16 Derek All right, bro, we're almost here, we're almost here. We need a chiropractor. Is anybody here? 00:24 Ryan Hey, can I help you? 00:26 Derek Are you a chiropractor? 00:27 Ryan I happen to be a chiropractor. What's going on? 00:29 Derek Thank God. My friend just broke his back. He's getting really old. 00:33 Ryan Oh my goodness. 00:34 Derek And he needs your help. 00:34 Ryan Okay, let's have a look. 00:35 Given It hurts. Oh, okay. 00:37 Ryan I'm gonna check a couple things for you. 00:40 Given Okay. 00:40 Ryan Let me know if this hurts, okay? 00:42 Given Ow! 00:44 Ryan I thought you hurt your back. I didn't even touch your back yet. 00:46 Given That was my back. 00:53 Ryan Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna do a little bit of work now. You okay with that? 00:57 Given Yes. 00:58 Ryan Okay. All right, I'm gonna get you to take a breath in and let it all the way out. 01:12 Ryan Okay, all done. So let's go, uh, just go through some exercises quickly and you'll be good to go. 01:21 Given Welcome everyone to the So You Studied Bio podcast. 01:25 Given I'm your host Given, and behind the camera is Derek. 01:27 Given Today we are very fortunate to be able to interview Dr. Ryan Albert. It's great to meet you. 01:33 Ryan Great to be here. Well, we met before the cameras are rolling, but yeah. Yeah, so pretend like we just met. 01:39 Given Exactly. So, um, we kind of want to get right into it. 01:44 Given Uh, in one sentence, kind of, or maybe a few, what do you do for a living? 01:49 Ryan So I'm a chiropractor, that is my title designation. 01:55 Ryan But I think depending on who you talk to, some people may not fully understand what I do compared to another chiropractor in Canada or in another country. 02:06 Ryan So I would say in a sentence or two, I help people understand their bodies a little bit better. 02:14 Ryan And I teach them how to be more comfortable with pain, with injury. 02:23 Ryan And that may involve some hands-on work and some hands-off work. That's awesome. 02:28 Given Yeah. What do you think is maybe a common misconception that people might have about chiropractors before they meet you? 02:36 Ryan So how much time do you have? That's a really loaded question given if you understood the profession of chiropractic and I won't get into it too much, but I'll say that every, I feel like every 02:53 Ryan profession, especially in healthcare, has an evolution. 02:57 Ryan Chiropractic was founded on these principles about 130 years ago that some people still argue whether or not they have a basis. 03:10 Ryan I think, like, if you think about medicine, there were things that doctors have done in the past that we would look at now and be like, oh my God, like, why did you do that? 03:20 Given Yeah. 03:21 Ryan So I guess what I'm getting at is people may still look at chiropractic in some of those ways based on, like, the traditions and principles. 03:33 Derek Okay. 03:34 Ryan I think now chiropractors, especially in Canada, have a really great education background to be experts in, we'll call it neuromusculoskeletal health. 03:48 Ryan So taking care of someone's body in a non-invasive way, looking at muscles, joints, nerves, soft tissues. 03:55 Given Okay. 03:55 Derek Yeah. 03:56 Given I mean, kind of the, the weird thing is when I think of, uh, any type of chiropractic work, I'm imagining— I used to be obsessed with these YouTube videos where they would like crack your back and 04:09 Given you'd hear all these loud pops and stuff. So is that very kind of— 04:13 Ryan So that's, that's the clickbait. Yeah, it's like when I, when I talk to people about, um, my profession or it comes up, they're like, dude, is that what you do? 04:24 Ryan Do you crack backs? So again, like, the, the basis of chiropractic was founded on the idea of spinal manipulation and how it can impact the body in different ways. 04:36 Ryan So that, I think for me, that is a tool. I have many tools in my toolbox that I can use to help somebody. 04:45 Ryan So yeah, that's the clickbait. That's what people want to see. 04:47 Ryan That's like the ASMR. That's what people may— practitioners may use to get someone through the door because it's— what's the word for it? It's just provocative. 05:00 Given Okay. 05:00 Ryan It can be a little bit controversial, but again, It's something that's been around for a long time, and if it wasn't help— more helpful than harmful, it's— it wouldn't— it wouldn't still be employed. 05:13 Given I hear you. Yeah, so I guess we do also want to know, how did you get here? What was your background? 05:20 Ryan What did you take undergraduate? Oh my God, great question. 05:23 Ryan I love talking about myself. Uh, okay, so I went to McMaster. 05:28 Ryan Uh, I, I knew— I knew I wanted to study science. I also had this background in art, but I knew I couldn't do both at the same time, so I went the science route. 05:41 Ryan Out of the 3, like the, I guess, bio, physics, chemistry, I had the aptitude or the desire to go the bio route. 05:51 Given Okay. 05:52 Ryan So when I signed up, or when I applied to McMaster, I went into like the life sciences program, and then eventually just narrow it into like a biology major. 06:05 Given Focus, okay. 06:06 Ryan For me, I just, I was just trying to study what I enjoyed or what I was interested in, and that became easier to do as you get, you know, through your years of undergrad. 06:18 Ryan I loved studying physiology. I just love the human body, the intricacy of the human body from a cellular level to a more macro level. 06:29 Ryan I loved studying immunology, though that doesn't really have a huge place for me now. 06:35 Ryan It still is a very helpful background understanding in inflammation and how the body responds to injury. 06:42 Given Mm-hmm. 06:44 Ryan So yeah, that, that was where I went, and I got to a point where in 4th year I had to figure out what my next move was, and I had no I have no friggin idea. 07:01 Ryan I think I thought that medical school made the most sense. 07:05 Ryan It was something that kind of was just ingrained from an early age. 07:09 Ryan Like, you're a smart kid, you love science, you want to help people, you're going to be a doctor. 07:16 Ryan Okay, that sounds right. Sounds like a good idea. 07:20 Ryan I think I was going through a lot of cognitive dissonance with that at that time because I didn't— I figured later it was deep down wasn't really what I wanted, um, and I was fighting against that. 07:32 Ryan I, I did— I wrote the MCAT, I applied to med school, I didn't get in. 07:36 Ryan Um, and yeah, long and short is, uh, I decided to apply for chiropractic school. 07:44 Given Mm-hmm. 07:45 Ryan I really liked, um, this one practitioner that I saw. 07:49 Ryan I thought he was really cool, just the way he practiced. 07:53 Ryan He was very athletic, sports-oriented. He wasn't like the traditional chiropractors that we, we think of or we see. 08:01 Ryan Um, and he was still in this like science-based role where he was helping people. 08:08 Ryan Um, and I'm like, oh, I could do this. Um, so yeah, that was kind of the, the short version of that. 08:14 Given That's awesome. Yeah, so you kind of felt like your degree could have led to med, but then through exploration you found something that was maybe a bit more appealing to you? 08:24 Ryan Yeah, I think anyone can— anyone wanting to go into medical school can enter that from like different pathways. 08:35 Ryan It doesn't even have to be biology. I know some people that studied like art history or English or classics, and I think generally people who enjoy science and biology in the human body, have that 08:48 Ryan aptitude for, for med. Um, but yeah, I mean, it can, it can really take you anywhere. Yeah, that is true. 08:57 Given And you, you minored in psychology, right? Um, why? What did that do for you? 09:04 Ryan So I just, I love— I, again, just like following my interests and what I enjoyed learning, and I, I As much as I love bio, and I think psych is very complementary to biology in that it addresses the 09:19 Ryan biology or the inner workings of the human mind, or not just the human mind, the animal mind, I guess you could say, 'cause I took some behavioral ecology courses, how birds interact with each other, 09:33 Ryan fish, whatever. Yeah, I like those kind of things. 09:35 Ryan Yeah, I just, I love to understand why do we do the things we do? 09:41 Given Right? 09:41 Ryan Why does a person behave the way they do? Why do they act the way they do? 09:45 Ryan How do they, how do they get there? How do we follow desires, emotions, motivations? 09:50 Derek Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. 09:51 Given And then between degrees, you, you spent 3 years at, I think, the UHN's ICU facilitating critical care research center. So yeah, how did that opportunity come about? 10:04 Ryan So I was in the library at McMaster studying for exams, and I ran into an old friend who is a year above me. 10:12 Ryan So she had already graduated, and she was actually at McMaster for her med school interview. 10:18 Given Oh, okay. 10:19 Ryan And I hadn't seen her in a while, and like, what are you doing? 10:22 Ryan She's like, oh, I'm working at the UHN in the ICU doing research. 10:26 Ryan I'm like, that sounds amazing. She's like, yeah, it's a 1-year placement, and the idea is you go in there and you just learn a ton. 10:32 Ryan You get paid a little bit, but you just learn a lot about the hospital system, about medicine and different allied health professionals. 10:42 Ryan And she's like, we're actually looking for someone to take over my role. 10:46 Ryan I'm like, this is literally the most amazing, like, meeting opportunity ever. 10:52 Ryan Hook me up. So I said just that, hook me up. And she sent me an email, I guess later that week. 10:58 Ryan I went for an interview. I met the physician that she worked for. And I got the spot. 11:03 Given Awesome. 11:04 Ryan And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. 11:08 Ryan It was such a fantastic opportunity. So in a nutshell, I basically, I was like a research assistant, research coordinator at a certain point, and I was helping to facilitate clinical research within 11:22 Ryan the ICU. So physicians would study different aspects of care, sedation protocols, ventilator protocols for patients who were critically ill. 11:32 Ryan So I would help to enroll patients, collect data, and yeah, screen for people in the ICU to see if they were eligible to be in a study. 11:43 Ryan And it was insane. I worked with some of the best physicians in the world in their respective fields, and I worked alongside nurses, respiratory therapists, pharmacists. It was amazing. Amazing. 11:57 Given So what did that experience teach you about the, the body and maybe also about yourself? Mm-hmm. 12:02 Ryan So I think it taught me that I didn't think medical school was for me because I got to see firsthand an aspect of medicine, right? 12:14 Ryan There are lots of different routes you can take once you actually finish medical school and go through. 12:20 Ryan But I think I was maybe getting the sense that the hospital life wasn't for me or wasn't like primarily for me. 12:27 Derek Yeah. 12:28 Ryan And it gave me time to also assess other healthcare professions, so I saw some fantastic people in lots of different allied professions in the hospital. 12:41 Derek Okay. 12:41 Ryan And nothing really clicked for me. So I think in that career sense, it helped direct me or redirect me in the right ways, but I also just learned a ton about medicine, critical care. 12:58 Ryan I got to sit in on rounds every week. Oh, that's awesome. 13:01 Ryan So I just, I, I feel like it set me up in a really great way for what I'm doing now. 13:08 Ryan Um, as a chiropractor, I'm still a— we call like a primary contact healthcare provider. 13:14 Ryan So people can come to me for something that may be completely irrelevant to what I do, but it's important that I direct them the right way. 13:23 Ryan So if you came to me and listed off these symptoms, and I was like, hmm, you know, given that, that doesn't sound like a me thing, but that could be a very important thing to talk to with this 13:35 Ryan healthcare provider. I mean, generally, if something smells fishy, you direct someone to a doctor or the hospital, but it gave me a lot more insight and understanding into other types of medical conditions and— 13:49 Given So more like general knowledge about the world. 13:53 Ryan Yeah, general health knowledge, hospital system knowledge, medical knowledge. 13:58 Given Yeah. 13:59 Given And we read a little bit of a— I think it was like an article or paper or something like that where you said that you never saw yourself becoming a chiropractor. You called it actually a little bit weird. 14:10 Ryan Yeah, I still think it's weird. I still think— I still— I don't know, I guess there are certain things that you, when you're young, you get this like understanding of, and it really, it just kind of 14:26 Ryan sticks with you, right? If you like try a food when you're young and you just remember that food just being gross, or— 14:33 Given Yeah. 14:33 Ryan It kind of just, it lingers, it sticks with you for a long time. 14:35 Ryan So I think my, maybe depending on whatever situations or experiences led to that, my understanding of chiropractors was like, I didn't have a good or a positive experience. 14:49 Given Yeah. 14:50 Ryan Um, so I was just like, no, like, that's weird, that's kooky. 14:53 Ryan And again, depending on who you talk to, some people may not have this full understanding of what a chiropractor can do, how they can help you, what they can help you with. 15:03 Ryan Um, so I was stuck in that mindset. I feel like I maybe still am because There are practitioners out there. 15:11 Ryan I'm not poo-pooing anyone, but every profession has like its bad eggs. 15:17 Ryan So those bad eggs tend to be more top of mind, front and center, and in the public eye. 15:24 Given Yeah. 15:24 Ryan And it gives us a bad rap. So when people are like, I'm, you know, I go tell someone I'm a chiropractor, they're like, oh, that's weird. 15:31 Ryan Yeah, I know. But yeah, I guess Now, the way that I've, I've had enough time now under my belt to see enough people and know that I, I have a skill set to help people navigate pain, problems, injury, 15:52 Ryan I feel a lot more confident about it. But yeah, again, it's just, I guess, the connotation behind the, the term or the profession. 16:02 Given Okay, fair. And what do you feel like the reaction was from your Maybe family and friends when you told them, hey guys, I'm going to chiropractic school? 16:12 Ryan So again, same idea is everyone has their own understanding of a certain profession or certain thing. 16:25 Ryan So yeah, my parents were maybe a little bit unsure, uncertain. 16:33 Ryan I think in that time they could see how much I was struggling with, like, figuring out what I wanted to do. 16:40 Ryan And I just, at a certain point, I had to kind of pick something. 16:43 Ryan It's like, Ryan, just pick a school, go to the school. 16:46 Ryan So yeah, when I told them, uh, I think there was— I want to say a bit of apprehension, but I think that came out of concern or fear. 16:56 Given Yeah. 16:58 Ryan for them feeling like I wasn't sure if I was making the right decision. 17:03 Ryan So they were kind of worried, like, is this going to be the right thing for him? 17:06 Given Okay. 17:08 Ryan But I know they've, like, they've seen the trajectory and watched the path kind of unfold, and they know that I made the right move for me. 17:15 Ryan And I think I, I still think I made the right move, but I don't know if, if I could go back in a time machine, I don't know, would I, would I explore something else? 17:25 Given Maybe. Maybe? Who knows? Do you feel like you're— because I know that kind of that those 3 years helped you a lot, but do you feel like your undergraduate, the biology background that you have, actually helps you a lot with what you do now? 17:40 Ryan So I think it helped me a ton in chiro school because chiro school is very, very work dense. 17:47 Ryan Like, we at a certain point we had 13 exams in like one semester. 17:52 Derek What? 17:52 Ryan It was nuts. It was nuts because you're— 17:55 Given you— 17:55 Ryan a school gets accredited for a certain type of program or degree, and they say you have to have this many hours of this course, this many hours. 18:03 Ryan So chiropractic is, is crazy, but it's very similar to medical school in that, like, the amount of hours in pharmacology, in biology, in physiology, like, they have to be pretty equivalent. 18:17 Derek So crazy. 18:18 Ryan So we just get hammered with stuff. And for me, I knew a lot of that stuff already. 18:23 Given OK. 18:23 Ryan So, some people who maybe did kin or art history or whatever, they didn't have that same immunology background, microbiology background. 18:32 Ryan So, that stuff I didn't have to work as hard on, which was really nice. 18:38 Ryan I, in fact, I got to help others. Like, I did some tutoring while we were in school. 18:42 Ryan So, I got to help, I guess, some of my classmates figure some of that stuff out. 18:48 Derek Yeah. 18:49 Ryan Um, I think my biology degree, like, if I'm, if I'm being specific with the fact that it was a biology undergraduate degree, I think it helped me in that, helped me just have a better understanding 19:04 Ryan background for the hospital time that I, I had. Um, I think the undergraduate degree itself Regardless of what you actually study, it's really just a lesson in like work ethic. 19:18 Ryan Yeah, it's just like, can you go to the library for 12 hours a day and sit down, study, learn the stuff, retain it? 19:28 Given There— 19:29 Ryan that's a skill set in and of itself, and it helps you in other aspects of life. 19:34 Given Okay. 19:35 Ryan Yeah. 19:35 Given And what made your decision to choose the Canadian Memorial, like, as your school? Because there are other ones, right? 19:44 Ryan So, so in Canada, there's actually only 2 chiropractic schools for the whole country. 19:50 Given Oh wow, okay. 19:51 Ryan Um, one of which is a French-speaking school in Quebec. 19:54 Given Okay. 19:54 Ryan So it narrows it down quite a bit. If you, if you want to become a chiropractor in Canada, you have 2 options really, English-speaking. You either go to CMCC or you go into the States. 20:05 Given Okay. 20:05 Ryan So CMCC, they get a pretty hefty number of applicants, like, uh, I want to say probably close to 700, 800, and then the class is about 200. 20:17 Derek Okay. 20:18 Ryan Um, so if you don't get in, which happens, um, people will go to the States. 20:23 Ryan The only problem is, uh, so 2 problems. One is it's very expensive to go into the US to study anything really as a Canadian. 20:33 Ryan And the other part, the Canadian school is like world-renowned for chiropractic studies in that it's very evidence-based. 20:41 Ryan So there is a huge like research component to the school, to the institution, which is great because it helps, it helps create more public trust. 20:52 Given Yeah. 20:53 Ryan Trust in the scientific community, right? Because again, the profession is rooted in With quirkiness. 21:01 Given I guess. 21:02 Given Yeah. 21:02 Given What do you think was the hardest adjustment for you moving from like your undergraduate and all that experience to doing Cairo School? 21:14 Ryan I think it was actually— it was uplifting in that it felt more directional, right? 21:20 Ryan When you go into undergrad, you, depending on who you are, you don't necessarily know where you're going next. 21:26 Ryan Some people, they know, like, I'm doing this. So it felt more uplifting in that I had more direction. 21:33 Ryan So I felt like what I was studying was applicable to my next steps. 21:38 Given Okay. 21:38 Ryan Yeah, which was really nice. And then it was just the volume, volume of work. 21:44 Given Yeah, it's a lot. 21:45 Ryan So much work. 21:46 Given What did get you through? Because you, you graduated with distinction, I believe. So what got you through? 21:53 Ryan My bio undergrad. Yeah, well, it just, again, it allowed me to Um, spend less time learning new things and just maybe relearning old things. 22:06 Given Okay. 22:07 Ryan Right? 22:07 Ryan Like, I knew the Krebs cycle, I knew glycolysis, I knew the electron transport chain, like, in and out. 22:14 Ryan So I just had to relearn it. And so those things, I guess, gave me a bit of a leg up. 22:20 Ryan Um, yeah, awesome. Worked hard. I mean, I did. I'm, I'm gonna pat myself on the back. I worked hard. 22:28 Derek Yeah. 22:28 Given I mean, you got to. 22:29 Ryan Yeah. 22:29 Given Well, thank you. I mean, we will take a break here. 22:33 Given Okay. Uh, and then we'll resume back and catch you guys in part 2. 22:37 Ryan Love it. 23:36 Derek Welcome back everybody to the second half of the 5th episode of the So You Started Bio podcast, and let's get straight into it. 23:45 Derek So a year before finishing your DC, you picked up a contemporary medical acupuncture certification at McMaster. Why add that onto an already demanding program? 23:58 Ryan Great question. So before I started chiro school, I went to see a naturopath for— I forget exactly what it was. 24:12 Ryan But the naturopath at the time, for whatever was going on, suggested we try some acupuncture to help me out. 24:18 Ryan I was like, okay, cool. I've never tried acupuncture, and I was curious about it. 24:21 Ryan So I let him do it, and I was like, wow, this is so cool. 24:25 Ryan And I did notice— again, say what you will about acupuncture, there's a lot of different, differing views on the efficacy of it. 24:35 Given Yeah. 24:36 Ryan But I just, I thought it was a really cool technique. 24:39 Ryan I found it helpful. I'm like, I have to learn this, like, when I become a chiro, and I had already seen that there were a lot of chiros, physios out there that would take an acupuncture certification 24:51 Ryan to use that as a tool in their practice because you don't actually learn that in your chiro degree or physio degree or RMT degree. 24:59 Derek Okay. 25:00 Ryan So yeah, there's a few different choices for us like when we finish school where we can study acupuncture. 25:09 Ryan And McMaster has a really fantastic program that they run. 25:14 Ryan It's run by a sports, sports med doctor and an anesthesiologist. 25:18 Derek Okay. 25:19 Ryan And yeah, it was awesome, and I learned a ton, and it just, it became a really great skill set to complement what I can do as a chiro, what I learned to do as a chiro. 25:33 Ryan Yeah, I love it. I use it Most of the day, I find it to be a very helpful modality for certain people at certain times for certain things. 25:43 Ryan And I also teach it now. So I started— I helped start a course a few years ago where I teach physiotherapists how to use acupuncture in their practice, so then they can go out and use it for their patients. 26:01 Derek Mm-hmm. 26:02 Ryan So it's a lot of fun. I love it. 26:05 Derek So you took this up when you were still doing the chiropractor school? 26:08 Ryan So when you talk to people who had finished it already, they, they had suggested, like graduates of the chiro degree program had suggested doing it in your last year of school versus like waiting to 26:22 Ryan do it once you're done school, just because it worked out so that I could do that in my 4th year of chiro school, my final year of chiro school, finish it, and then when I was able to start working, 26:37 Ryan I could already incorporate it into my practice. I could get insured for it. 26:40 Ryan So the timing just made more sense. So it was shittier in that it was combined into like my school year, so I had to do more. 26:49 Ryan Um, but you know, it worked out really well. Yeah, it's still working out really well. 26:52 Ryan So you just— it was, it was just the, the right timing or the suggested timing for other people. 26:58 Derek So you've since added functional range conditioning and Libenson's First Principle of Movement to your credentials. 27:06 Derek What keeps you going back for more training years after your practice? 27:13 Ryan I think what makes a good healthcare practitioner— I'm not saying I'm a good— I think I'm a good healthcare practitioner, but I'm saying what makes a good healthcare practitioner is not getting stuck 27:28 Ryan in ideology, right? We, we're in a time of our lives where we are learning new things every day about the world, about our bodies. 27:39 Ryan Um, so, like, you have to keep up with that, right? 27:42 Ryan Yeah, it's challenging. What I tell someone yesterday, I may next week have to say, oh, you know what? 27:48 Derek I— 27:48 Ryan we, we did some research and we figured out that that wasn't the right thing. 27:53 Ryan And so, you got to be humble about that, and part of that is is learning more, taking more courses. 27:58 Ryan It's also, to be fair, it's part of our profession, is we have to do a certain amount of continuing education hours each year, every 2 years. 28:08 Ryan So, that's part of it. But really, like, I need to not feel stagnant. 28:13 Given Yeah. 28:13 Ryan I need to be learning more. So, Craig Liebensohn, Andrea Spina, these are guys, chiropractors, physios, professionals that run different courses. 28:24 Ryan And so the ones that you mentioned are more rehab-specific. 28:29 Ryan So different ideologies or ways to program different types of exercises for people that are injured or wanting to improve or improve their performance. 28:41 Ryan So yeah, these are like gurus in our, in our profession or in our industry. 28:46 Given Mm-hmm. 28:47 Ryan That I've been able to learn from. And yeah, it's awesome. 28:51 Ryan You just, you don't want to be stagnant. Once you get there, it's like an icky feeling. 28:57 Ryan You need to, you need more knowledge. You need to learn more. 28:59 Ryan You need to keep up. You need to keep going. You can't stop. 29:02 Ryan Yeah, that goes for everything. You can't stop moving. Can't stop learning. 29:05 Derek Yeah. 29:06 Ryan Yeah. 29:06 Derek And one thing I really love is that your clinic is literally right inside Buffy's gym rather than a typical medical building. So how did this setup come to be? 29:17 Ryan So I think, again, going back to what I was talking about with Given, is there are a lot of different ways that someone like me could practice. 29:27 Ryan There are practitioners— chiros, physios— that are very hands-on, meaning like most of what they do is manual therapy, manipulation, acupuncture, soft tissue therapy. 29:40 Ryan I think for me though, I value that and I incorporate that a lot into lots of people's treatment plans or into my work with them. 29:48 Ryan A big part for me is the rehab component, is the exercise component. 29:53 Ryan So this is like, these are the playgrounds. This is where we can get the, you know, the magic happening. 29:58 Given Yeah. 29:58 Ryan And not to say you can't do that in a medical building, but space may be more limited. 30:03 Ryan And for me, I'm a solo practitioner, so it's just me in my clinic, in my practice. 30:09 Ryan So when I saw this setup come about, I was just— I was looking for a place to rent space. 30:17 Ryan It just, it makes the most sense. I have all the tools, I have all the space that I need to, to be my best and give my best for clients or patients. 30:27 Derek Yeah. Yeah, you also said you taught in an acupuncture course and led a clinical mentorship program. 30:34 Derek What made you want to start training Other practitioners? 30:39 Ryan So, I mean, a lot of my job is like teaching, is educating to patients, clients, so it's really just a different audience when you're talking about other practitioners. 30:51 Ryan I feel like I get the same like selfish benefit from it in that I'm teaching someone something and I enjoy that, so I think at its heart is I enjoy teaching people stuff. 31:03 Ryan So when it comes to like mentoring, I'm just— I'm— I feel like I'm trying to do something for someone younger than me or less experienced than me to help them be in a better place than I would have been a year into practice, 2 years into practice. 31:21 Derek Mm-hmm. 31:22 Ryan So like I said, I really love acupuncture. I loved learning it. 31:25 Ryan I love performing it. So I wanted to teach that. I wanted to give other professionals, it's mostly physios, that passion, that ability, and it's great. 31:37 Ryan I still run into past practitioners that I've taught in my acupuncture course, and they're like, Ryan, I did this point today, and this acupuncture point, and I used it on this patient, and it's 31:49 Ryan great. I can see that they enjoy it as much as I do, so that's cool. 31:54 Ryan That's like the dopamine rush, right? shown someone something and then they take it and they apply it. 32:01 Ryan Exactly. That's like, it's the best. Um, so yeah, that's, I guess that's the fuel, the driver there is dopamine. 32:08 Derek Okay. So how do you get a patient who's scared of movement after an injury to trust that strength training is actually the path forward? 32:17 Ryan Oh my God, that is, that's a huge question. That is, that's a defining question In our practice or like in our industry, right, is how, how do you help someone during an injury who's afraid because 32:34 Ryan everything that they do hurts to actually go and do that thing? 32:40 Ryan Really, like, you break it down into the smallest pieces, and I think when someone comes to you and knows that, or like trusts you as the expert in their field, that inherent trust allows them to 32:56 Ryan just listen to what you say and, and do what you suggest with a little bit more, I guess, reassurance. 33:05 Ryan Like, that, that, that really is like the root of our job. 33:09 Ryan Most of my day I'm, I'm reassuring people, I'm listening to their concerns and their fears, and I'm telling them that it's gonna be okay. 33:18 Ryan That's a big part of my job. How do I get someone, for instance, who is having really bad low back pain trust themselves again, trust movement? 33:28 Ryan I break it down into little steps, right? So if someone is, I call like day zero of an injury, day zero is like, that's the same day that something went, like they went down to pick something out of 33:40 Ryan the dishwasher and their back went out. I give them teeny strategies, right? 33:46 Derek Yeah. 33:46 Ryan To feel confident in what they're doing with movement. 33:50 Ryan maybe their pain is an 8 out of 10 and it takes it to a 7. 33:53 Ryan If that's all I can do that day, great, that's a win, right? 33:57 Ryan And then the wins get a little bit bigger each day, each week, right? 34:00 Ryan So it's, it's really just giving them— Craig Liebensohn, this is one of the, one of the gurus in our profession, is giving people positive experiences with movement, right? 34:13 Ryan If they have a lot of negative experiences, it fuels that fear, that avoidance. 34:18 Ryan So it's just finding little ways that I can give people positive experiences, and that can help to reinforce and rewrite the negative. 34:26 Ryan So yeah, it comes with experience and time, knowing what's the right move, what's the right thing for the right person. Yeah. 34:35 Derek I mean, I guess I could say that I feel like I fall under the same category of people who are scared to move when they're injured because Something about me is that I separated my AC joint about a 34:49 Derek year back. And for about a month or a month and a half, I did not want to move my arm or my foot. 34:56 Ryan No, because it hurt and you're concerned and you don't want to make it worse. 35:00 Derek Yeah, it was a rough period. But it was really the help of the physiotherapists and the chiropractors that I went to go meet. 35:06 Derek They encouraged me to get some exercise in at least and just do some small gestures that I could use to work on regaining my strength, you know? 35:18 Ryan Right. 35:18 Derek Yeah, so you need them to help you. 35:19 Ryan You followed little steps and you didn't do anything crazy at the beginning, and then the work got a little bit more progressive and hard. 35:28 Derek Yeah. 35:28 Ryan Yeah, so that, that's the key, is just trusting the process, right? 35:33 Ryan When it, when it comes to a traumatic injury like that or something There's a— we'll call it like a pathological problem, like you injured a tissue and we know that the tissue is injured because we 35:44 Ryan saw it on X-ray or ultrasound or MRI. That's a little bit tricky. 35:49 Ryan You have to at least respect the physiology behind it. 35:54 Ryan You have to say, you know, this is the phase where the tissue is remodeling, and then we enter the next phase and the next phase. 36:02 Ryan It can depend on the problem too, right? That's an example of one thing. 36:06 Ryan Another example that I see all the time is just, we'll call, nonspecific mechanical low back pain, which doesn't always have like a tissue pain generator, like a source, right? 36:19 Given Mm-hmm. 36:20 Ryan For you, your tissue between your AC joint was torn or injured. 36:25 Ryan Low back pain, we don't always see that. So we have to, we have to Guide the rehab in a bit of a different way than we would for like a traumatic injury like that. 36:35 Derek Yeah. 36:36 Ryan Yeah. 36:37 Derek So winning the Ontario Chiropractic Association's recent Graduate Award and Toronto Star Reader's Choice Award early in your career, do you find recognition like that to change a common belief in your field of work? 36:54 Ryan Um, I mean, I think those types of things are helpful for, I guess, like street cred, right? And like advertising and things like that. 37:07 Derek Yeah. 37:07 Ryan I don't want to diminish it. I feel like I, in my early years, I worked hard and I did a lot. 37:18 Ryan And I think it speaks to clients' or patients' experiences with me because that's really what a lot of it is based on is positive experiences in practice. 37:31 Ryan So, yeah, I mean, it's street cred. It's nothing crazy. 37:34 Ryan Like, I didn't win an Oscar or, like, a Nobel Peace Prize. 37:38 Ryan But it's nice to know, like, outside of that, for us, our currency sometimes can be, like, a Google review, right? 37:51 Ryan Getting a positive Google review can say a lot about your practice and your business and help other people that are maybe looking for a chiropractor or physio trust in your services or in what you're 38:03 Ryan selling. So yeah, it's, it's a nice thing to see and to have, to know that you helped someone and they were wanting to boast about it and tell you or tell others. 38:16 Ryan So yeah, that it's— I guess it's nice and selfish in that sense. 38:21 Given Yeah. 38:21 Derek What's a skill from your biology degree that you use every single day in the clinic, even though it's not obviously clinical? 38:30 Ryan Hmm. I think it's, I think it's probably in the way that I, um, so I'll say like, if I were to think about my bio and psych, like bio major and psych minor, I think I probably use a little bit of 38:50 Ryan both. I think the minor in psych is actually more relevant in that I, I need to understand the person in front of me, like what their motivations are, what, what is going on with them, because so 39:07 Ryan much about pain and injury is, is not necessarily about the tissue or the problem that the person thinks they have. More big picture. 39:18 Derek Okay. 39:18 Ryan Right? It's, it's the person in front of me and how they're thinking, what they're thinking about. 39:23 Ryan So I think that having that understanding of like human psychology really helps me deal with the person in front of me and get them to trust me and get them to understand what I'm explaining and also 39:37 Ryan help like just figure out how to navigate them through their through their path, through their route, because it could be different for everybody. 39:45 Ryan And then I think just with my bio knowledge, really it just, it helps me understand the, we'll call it like the physiology and like biological science behind healing and behind injury. 40:01 Derek So for a biology undergrad right now who has no idea what is gonna come next, what's one question you wish someone would've asked you at that stage? 40:10 Given Mm-hmm. 40:12 Ryan So, I would just, I would encourage someone to just really be honest with themselves, which I know it's hard to do in your early 20s, really just step back from what you think you're supposed to do, 40:28 Ryan and the external pressures that you have, and just be honest. 40:31 Ryan Like, what do you enjoy? What do you think you could fill your day with and not be upset about it at the end of the day? 40:42 Ryan I think people can be financially successful, 'cause that's an important piece, financially successful in lots of different things, not necessarily one, like, archetype or one way. 40:54 Derek Yeah. 40:55 Ryan So I think if you, again, it sounds a bit cliché, if you're honest with yourself, and you go down a path where you're following passion and interest, you can figure out a way to be successful. 41:09 Ryan And especially these days, there's so many different ways to monetize or navigate, um, like financial gain within an industry. 41:18 Ryan Like, as an example, I'm a chiropractor, and a lot of what I do is fee-for-service. So like, I have to provide a service. 41:26 Derek Mm-hmm. 41:26 Ryan And I have to be there to provide it in order to make money. 41:30 Given Yeah. 41:30 Ryan But I could also create a course online and create like passive income from that. 41:37 Ryan Um, and that could be another like out of the box, or not really out of the box these days, but another way to, um, be financially successful and still have picked a path where maybe that path 41:52 Ryan traditionally wasn't the path that made you a lot of money. 41:55 Derek Mm-hmm. 41:56 Ryan Right. Um, but yeah, just follow your passions. The financial success can come from different things, but you have to actually want to do what you're like seeking out. 42:08 Ryan If you don't want to do it, it's just gonna— it's gonna burn you out. It's gonna weigh on you. Yeah. 42:14 Derek If someone wanted to follow your path and do exactly what you do right now, what advice would you have for them? 42:20 Ryan So really be like critical of why you wanna get into that specific thing, right? 42:30 Ryan That's a big question that we talked about way back when I was thinking about applying to medical school, is like a lot of the physicians I talked to were like, Ryan, why do you wanna be a medical 42:41 Ryan doctor, right? Like to say I wanna help people, that's also a nurse, that's also an RT, a pharmacist. 42:48 Derek Yeah. 42:49 Ryan Like why do you wanna be a medical doctor? So you gotta think about the actual job, the day-to-day, you know, that's where shadowing and observing other practitioners or professionals comes in handy 43:01 Ryan because you see what they do day to day. Do you want to do that? 43:04 Ryan So you have to check that first because sometimes people are like, oh yeah, I want to be a chiropractor. 43:09 Derek Mm-hmm. 43:10 Ryan Make sure you know what we do each day. Our job is physical. 43:13 Ryan I use my hands a lot. I move around a lot, which is a huge bonus. 43:16 Ryan I don't have to sit around all day. which I love, but it's physical. 43:21 Ryan I personally think you have to practice what you preach. 43:24 Ryan So for me, I'm an MSK expert, a musculoskeletal expert, so I have to be able to move and lift and provide examples to people on things that they have to do. 43:40 Ryan So I have to be able to do that if I'm gonna do a good job at that. 43:44 Ryan So yeah, just coming back to the start of that was just really like being critical of like, is that the thing that you want to do? 43:52 Ryan If so, great. Then you take the next steps to get there and you find the right people to mentor you, people that you look up to that you're like, wow, that person is doing a really good job at that. 44:05 Ryan Send them a message, buy them a coffee. I'd love to pick your brain. I'd love to work with you. I'd love to Right? 44:11 Derek That's the key. 44:12 Ryan People love that. I, if, when people come to me and like, Ryan, like, I'd love to chat with you. 44:16 Ryan It's great. I enjoy that. Buy them something though. 44:19 Ryan Like buy them a coffee or a sandwich. It's like a nice gesture. 44:22 Ryan Don't go empty-handed. Don't just walk in, buy them something. 44:27 Derek Yeah. If chiropractic and acupuncture didn't exist as options, what do you think you would've ended up doing with your biology degree right now? 44:36 Ryan Wow. 44:37 Ryan Oh my God, I ask myself that sometimes, but I don't know if I always come up with a straightforward answer. 44:44 Ryan Um, I like to talk, so I feel like I could have maybe got into— and my dad is in sales, so I feel like I could have got into more of a sales role. 44:56 Given Okay. 44:57 Ryan Um, perhaps I like— I have some clients or patients who are in the, like, biotech sales, like pharmaceutical sales roles. 45:08 Ryan So they'll go and provide tools to like surgeons in the hospital or device, medical devices, things like that. 45:16 Ryan I think that would be pretty cool because you would be able, you'd have that background in biology and medical science, but then you'd also be able to make a decent earning or income living in a 45:27 Ryan sales role like that. And I think it would be cool because you'd get to work with medical professionals pretty closely. 45:33 Ryan Like, I know a lot of those sales professionals will, like, liaise very closely with the doctors that they work with. 45:41 Ryan So I think that would be a potentially pretty cool opportunity too. 45:45 Given Okay. 45:46 Derek Are there any important courses or exams for future chiropractic students that people should know about? 45:52 Ryan Just to, like, to consider if you want to get into chiropractic school? 45:56 Ryan So, I mean, like, Like any professional degree, you'd have to make sure you're meeting the, like, prerequisites for entering or applying to that school. 46:06 Derek Mhm. 46:06 Ryan So, for chiropractic school in Canada, I believe you need to have completed a 3 or 4-year bachelor's degree in something. 46:15 Given Mhm. 46:15 Ryan Um, your marks have to be at a certain level, uh, and I think you have had to, had to have maybe taken a few science courses, but I could be wrong about that because I know some people that came into 46:29 Ryan my class with like art history backgrounds. I would say that it's less so meeting the general requirements, obviously like having a motivation or desire to get into that program, but I would say the 46:46 Ryan biggest piece is meeting lots of people in that profession and And getting a sense of how they practice and if it's something that you actually like and like how they do things. 46:58 Derek So in terms of extracurricular activities and things outside of education, what do you think makes a student more competitive for roles like this? 47:10 Ryan Like to get into Cairo School? So the cutoff for grades for entering chiropractic school isn't quite as rigorous or competitive as med school. 47:23 Derek Mm-hmm. 47:24 Ryan It's actually quite a bit lower, but there's a good portion of people that apply each year, so you wanna have a pretty competitive GPA. 47:33 Ryan Outside of that, I've participated in some of the interviews for entrance into the chiro school, so we're looking for people that if they went through enough training, you could have a conversation 47:47 Ryan with and feel like you trust them. And you would— I, I like to think, like, would I send my mother to this person, right? 47:56 Ryan Like, would I trust my mom to come see you and for you to take care of her? 48:00 Ryan Obviously not having the skill set that you have right now. 48:02 Ryan You would go through 4 years of school to get that. 48:05 Derek Yeah. 48:05 Ryan But in the way that you converse with people, so I think at the heart of it, being a good communicator would be pivotal. 48:14 Ryan So that's maybe in extracurriculars, that's going to things like Toastmasters or working on conversation, working on public speaking, things like that. 48:25 Ryan Because when I look at an interview or when I look at someone that I'm interviewing, I want to get a sense of how well they're going to communicate because when I do my job each day, That's what I 48:36 Ryan have to do. I have to communicate an idea to someone and make sure that they've understood it and that it makes sense to them, and also that they can trust that what I'm saying is going to be helpful for them. I think that's a big piece. 48:52 Derek Okay. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Ryan Albert. This was a really fruitful episode, and we will Meet you guys in the next episode of the So You Study in Bible podcast. 49:06 Derek Bye. 50:11 Given And that's a wrap on our conversation with Dr. Ryan. 50:14 Given First off, a big thank you to him for inviting us in and taking the time to sit down and talk with us. 50:19 Given Conversations like this are exactly why we started this series. 50:23 Given If there's one big takeaway from today, it's this: your life sciences background can take you a lot further into chiropractic practice than you might expect. 50:31 Given If you're willing to put in the time and the work, it's genuinely a great option, especially if you love staying active and moving as part of your day-to-day job. 50:39 Given We also want to give a big shout out to Buffy's Gym for letting us use their space to film. 50:44 Given They're located at 965 College Street in Toronto. 50:47 Given And you can find more information at buffysgym.com. 50:50 Given So if you're in the area, go check them out. Catch you guys next time on So You Studied Bio.
