Christopher Han steps into the fast-moving world of regenerative medicine at Acorn Biolabs, where hair follicle stem cells can be collected, preserved, and studied for personalized applications in skin, hair, and future therapies. His episode explores what it looks like to build a biology career inside biotechnology, where laboratory science, emerging medical technology, and real-world innovation meet.
Transcript click a line to jump the video Hide Transcript▴ 00:00 Derek Stem cells are a unique population of cells present in all stages of life that possess the ability— 00:05 Given Bro, what are you reading? 00:07 Derek An article on stem cells. It's important. 00:11 Given Stem cells? 00:13 Derek Stem cells. You've never heard of them before? 00:16 Given No, like, hold on, uh, you talking about this? 00:22 Given This thing? 00:23 Derek No, a literal stem of a plant. 00:26 Given Doesn't this look like— that's what you're talking about? 00:29 Derek STEM cells, like what's in our body. 00:31 Given Okay, hold on. I think I know what you mean. 00:34 Given I got you, I got you. 00:36 Given You are talking about, uh, this? 00:45 Derek No, that's science, technology, engineering, and math. 00:48 Given That's STEM though. That's what— that's literally what you're talking about. 00:52 Derek I think you're confused. I'm not talking about that type of STEM. 00:56 Given Okay, so I don't know what type of stem you could be talking about because clearly, like, we're both confused. 01:04 Derek I mean, it would be wonderful if somebody could come and talk to us about stem cells. 01:09 Given Yeah, I know, right? 01:11 Christopher You guys talking about stem cells? Yeah, we are. 01:13 Derek & Given Yeah, we are. 01:14 Christopher I can help you with that. Wanna go study stem cells with me? Let's do it. Let's go. 01:23 Derek Welcome back everybody to the So You Studied Bio podcast, and today we're joined by Christopher Han. Welcome here, Christopher. 01:30 Christopher Nice to meet you. 01:32 Derek So yeah, let's get straight into it. So for the listeners who don't know you yet, how would you describe what you do on a day-to-day basis at Akron Biolabs? 01:42 Christopher So as a lab manager, my primary responsibility is to making sure, essentially making sure that the lab is running properly. 01:48 Christopher So everything is in place, inventory is well stocked up. 01:52 Christopher If whenever there's a whenever we encounter an issue or any technicians or anybody have an issue, then I make sure the issues get resolved right away. 02:01 Christopher And then also, I also work hard to improve our current procedures. 02:05 Christopher So we have set protocols for our manufacturing facility as well as our cell cryopreservation. 02:11 Christopher So I routinely make sure that all the protocols make sense and that they're at their best condition, I guess, at the optimal stage. 02:19 Christopher But whenever there is an improvement needed, then I do design and execute experiments to make sure and to see if there's any ways to improve our procedure. Okay. 02:29 Derek So when you were a biology undergrad, did a lab manager at a regenerative medicine startup even exist on your radar as a career option? 02:39 Christopher Well, honestly, probably. But I guess when I was an undergrad, I didn't really know what kind of options are out there. 02:47 Christopher So, you know, typically, especially when you're at the University of Toronto, I don't know about other students, but myself focused a lot on research. 02:56 Christopher And then I knew there are research-related jobs at the biotechs or pharmaceuticals, but I didn't really know what other options were available, to be honest. 03:06 Derek Okay, so you think your mind was fully set straight on research? 03:13 Christopher Pretty much. Well, I guess I should have looked for other options, but I didn't know what existed. So I guess I was more lost. 03:23 Derek So what's one thing about working in the industry of biotech that surprised you compared to your basic academic research? 03:32 Christopher I guess the goal is very different. So in research, I guess at the end of the day, publishing a paper is the main goal. 03:44 Christopher So building a narrative around there, you do more and more experiments and then sort of As long as you can get the right data, I guess right set of data you need, sometimes that cost is justifiable. 04:00 Christopher But it's a bit different in the commercial settings where you can invest more, as much as you want, but at the end of the day, you'll have to charge that amount to the customers, right? 04:11 Derek Yeah. 04:12 Christopher So then it now becomes, okay, here is my budget, and we don't want to go above a certain point, but what can I— what is the best result that I can get out of this budget? 04:24 Christopher It's still the same in research, but I guess the focus is slightly different. 04:30 Derek Okay. 04:30 Derek So if you had to explain Acorn Biolabs science to a first-year bio student, how would you possibly describe it? 04:38 Christopher Well, we are a personalized regenerative medicine company. 04:43 Given Okay. 04:44 Christopher So you've probably heard a lot about stem cells and what they can do, but are they actually available to you? 04:51 Christopher Right. And then, so a lot of the products that are out there right now are mass-produced. 04:57 Christopher So meaning, okay, all the biotech products, everything like cell-related therapies, a lot of them are coming from someone else's cell. 05:05 Christopher Right. Our approach is that you use your own cells. 05:10 Christopher freeze your cells when you're young so that when you're in need of those cells, you can thaw them and then use those cells as a starting material. 05:19 Christopher So we think hair follicle cells have a lot of values in there. 05:22 Christopher So there are many different cell types in there which can potentially be very valuable. 05:27 Christopher And we've published a paper in 2024 showing that cryopreserved hair follicles, we can expand cells out of it and then turn those expanded cells into iPSCs, so stem cells. 05:39 Derek Okay. 05:40 Christopher So that's our main focus. So the first product from our preserved hair follicles is the personalized secretome. 05:49 Christopher So everything the cells secrete, you know, stem cells, let's say when they get into the site of injury, they detect the environment and then release all those factors that can, I guess, initiate the 06:03 Christopher healing or the recovery of that part. So it's exactly that, but without the cells, but with your own cells. 06:10 Christopher Everything is from your own cells. So the risk of inflammation on those are very low. 06:16 Derek Yeah, lower. 06:17 Christopher Yeah. It's got a lot of like growth factors and then fibronectin and many, many proteins that would initiate the healing and induce inflammation. 06:27 Christopher So that is currently available as a aesthetic serum, but our goal is to eventually turn that into a therapeutic product. 06:38 Derek Okay, so what does managing a lab actually mean day to day versus what people might assume from the outside? 06:47 Christopher A lot of troubleshooting. Equipment can fail anytime. 06:52 Christopher Like pipetting error can happen anytime. Like, you know, pipetting is It's such a basic thing, but people often make mistakes. 07:01 Christopher Well, I'm not saying, okay, not often, maybe, but sometimes make mistakes. 07:05 Christopher That happens. Human errors happen, right? Yeah, it happens. 07:08 Christopher So it's all about how am I going to manage the human errors, equipment failure, or just things that are out of my control. 07:16 Christopher Like sometimes, you know, especially after COVID, inventory has been very hard to maintain. 07:23 Christopher Like many items, many reagents and many consumables that we use can sometimes be backorder for months, then how— and my job as a lab manager is how am I going to make sure that the technicians can do 07:37 Christopher their job without worrying about, hey, I'm very low on this reagent, I need it ASAP. 07:44 Derek So what does quality control and consistency look like when you're processing living cells at scale rather than running one-off experiments? 07:55 Christopher So it's not easy, right? So every sample is unique and every sample, we have to make sure that every sample is processed in the exact same manner. 08:09 Christopher And then they go through, yeah, because they are processed in the same way. 08:15 Christopher And then here from time to time, things will happen, right? 08:19 Christopher Again, human errors do happen, equipment can fail anytime, and a lot of things can happen. 08:23 Christopher Then it's all about how are we gonna track those mistakes? 08:28 Christopher And then once we track it, can we document it in detail? 08:31 Christopher And then can we analyze the impact of it? Mistakes do happen, but like minor pipetting mistake is probably not going to have any impact on the cells themselves. 08:41 Derek No. 08:41 Christopher It's just like you made— you just need to pipette it again or do an extra wash. 08:46 Christopher You know, those things usually don't really cost too much. 08:49 Christopher But let's say if something major happens, then, okay, then it's really important again document it, and then analyze the root cause. 08:59 Christopher It might appear to be a mistake, but is it just because of that technician's mistake? 09:04 Christopher Right? 09:04 Christopher Is it because— was it because our training was not enough? 09:08 Christopher Or did our protocol cover all possible scenarios that may not be happening? 09:13 Christopher Or maybe, you know, it might be the tip was loose, right? 09:16 Christopher The tip was loose because of a manufacturing defect. 09:19 Christopher That's sometimes out of our control, right? Identifying those issues and then try to minimize those variables as much as possible is really, I guess, the hard part of my job. 09:33 Derek So how has your role evolved as the company has grown? 09:38 Christopher So I initially started as a processing technician. 09:41 Christopher So at the time, we were only offering cell banking, so hair follicle banking, and then plus some research portion of it. 09:51 Christopher So really just regular technicians, like the entry-level job and like entry-level technician. 09:58 Christopher But before I joined this company, I worked as a lab manager at one of the labs at the University of Toronto. 10:06 Derek Oh, wow. 10:06 Christopher So that gave me sort of experience in day-to-day lab operations. 10:11 Christopher So of course, things are very different in academia and the industry, but the core management is the same. 10:20 Christopher Inventory management, you know, everything, making sure all the SOPs and protocols are up to date and everything. 10:28 Christopher So, and then reviewing the procedure, you know, current procedures, and then see if there's any way to improve it. 10:34 Christopher So I— so because I had that experience, so that's where I can sort of contribute even as a technician. 10:42 Christopher So thankfully the company caught that, like realized that, and then sort of my role evolved from like regular technicians to— Manager. 10:54 Derek Okay. 10:54 Derek You became a laboratory manager at the Donnelly Centre for Cellular and Biomolecular Research at U of T. How did that opportunity come about? 11:04 Christopher Well, so it was at Dr. Peter Roy's lab. I did my master's there. 11:12 Christopher So I was doing their master's, so I stayed there for about 2 and a half, 3 years. 11:17 Christopher And then, you know, I was very lucky, literally very lucky to— like, I was lucky that, like, when I was about to defend my master's thesis, the position became vacant. 11:28 Christopher So, well, you know, instead of, like, looking for someone completely new, like, you know, the supervisor, Dr. 11:37 Christopher Roy, already knew me, you know, so everything kind of worked out that way. 11:40 Derek Okay. Was grad school what you expected, or did it change your career plans in any way? 11:50 Christopher It was not exactly what I was expecting in a sense that I guess I didn't really know what research is. 12:00 Christopher Like, I had a vague idea of it, but I didn't— I guess I didn't really understand what it takes to become a good scientist, or I guess good researcher. 12:10 Derek Right. 12:10 Christopher So in that sense, it was really hard for me. So my initial goal was just do a PhD, become a professor, because I love teaching. 12:21 Derek Wow. 12:21 Christopher I love teaching, but apparently not research. So that's when I realized, okay, maybe it's not a good idea to do a PhD from here. 12:30 Christopher Maybe finish my master's and see where I can go from there. 12:35 Christopher Eventually into teaching, but let's see what it takes to get to that teaching portion. 12:41 Derek How did your master's change the way you approach lab work compared to your undergrad research? 12:49 Christopher So when you are in master's, and I guess in PhD even more so, you're managing your own project, right? 12:57 Christopher So at undergrad level, you do have your own project, but that's really, I guess, not as deep, right? 13:06 Christopher you have to manage everything from A to Z. So you will obviously get help from PhD students, postdoc, your PI, but at the end of the day, you have to spend time studying, like, study this. 13:21 Christopher Okay, right now I'm doing this experiment, but you really need to understand why you are doing that particular experiment right now. 13:29 Derek Yeah. 13:30 Christopher What do you wanna get out of that experiment? And how's that gonna fit in the narrative of your paper? 13:35 Christopher And then how is it going to benefit, I guess, strengthen your narrative and stuff, and how is it gonna impact the downstream experiments, right? 13:46 Christopher So it's really good, it was a really good opportunity for me to see the bigger picture of it, right? 13:53 Christopher It's not just about learning a few techniques, it's not just about, okay, run how to do a complicated experiment. It's more than just an experiment. 14:01 Derek Mm-hmm. 14:01 Christopher It's more about the project. So when I first started, so there were experiments that I had, set of experiments that I had to do, but it's not so much about getting that experiment done, but 14:15 Christopher understanding what you're trying to do. And then is there any way to improve your work, right? 14:23 Derek Mm-hmm. 14:23 Christopher So we're only looking, we're right now looking at this way, but if we can sort of I guess change the scope a little bit and would that give us a better outcome? 14:34 Christopher I know it's kind of vague, but it really gave me opportunity to think about the broader picture rather than just seeing what I'm doing right now. 14:43 Derek Okay. 14:44 Derek You also worked as a teaching assistant during this period. 14:47 Derek How did teaching shape the way you thought about science? 14:52 Christopher So teaching is actually, it's like doing research is one thing, but teaching is another thing, right? 15:01 Christopher You need to explain your work in a lay term, right? 15:04 Christopher So a lot of time, so with the team as a TA, I encountered, like, I guess the students were still undergrad students, right? 15:15 Christopher So I can't explain everything, right? Otherwise it's just gonna be too complicated. 15:21 Christopher And my project, I had to explain, I had to give a 15-minute intro to even talk about my first experiment, right? 15:28 Christopher How am I going to narrow it down or like, I guess, distill it as much as possible and yet still make sense? Yeah. 15:35 Derek Right. 15:36 Christopher So obviously as a TA, I didn't talk about my research, but to explain the concept, right? 15:45 Christopher So there are in pharmacology, there are a lot of drugs involved and then a lot of similar names, a lot of adverse, like different names, adverse effects, there are a lot, right? 15:56 Christopher So how am I going to guide the students in the simplest way possible was my goal as my TA. Hopefully that makes sense. 16:07 Derek Yeah, yeah, it does. So looking back, what's one thing you wish somebody had told you in your first year of biology about the range of careers that are available to people? 16:20 Christopher At the University of Toronto, first-year life sci, when I first joined, you know, everybody talks about grad school. 16:27 Christopher Well, grad school, well, I guess a lot more on medical school, you know, dentistry, pharmacy, pharmacists, all those are the things that— 16:36 Derek Norms. 16:36 Christopher Students' norms, right? Like very rarely there might be some lawyer or anything, but like they don't really know too much about like industry, right? 16:44 Christopher So again, as I said, We mostly, even now when students approach, like send email or send message via LinkedIn, they always talk about research, 99% of them. 16:58 Christopher But there are many other jobs available, right? It's not, it's logistic jobs is also available, regulatory affairs is also available, quality assurance is also available, lab ops. 17:10 Derek Yeah. 17:12 Christopher It's connected but slightly different, it's a bit different. 17:14 Christopher And then also, you know, sometimes we need— there are people needed between science, the science, the lab, and the commercial people, right? 17:25 Christopher The business people, the salespeople. We need someone who can translate science for their language, right? 17:31 Derek Be like a link between both, right? 17:33 Christopher Yeah. So there are many jobs available and I didn't know any of it, right? 17:37 Christopher So I was just naively thinking, okay, I'll do master's, PhD, and become a professor. 17:42 Christopher Right. So I guess nowadays there are a lot of tools available, right? 17:46 Christopher So AI. So like if you want to get into biotech or if you're even if you're not thinking about it, you can still give it a try, right? 17:54 Christopher Ask AI what are the jobs available and what are the qualifications needed? 17:58 Christopher And then what are the day-to-day life of each job is like? 18:02 Derek Mm-hmm. 18:03 Christopher And I guess if you really like research, then go for it. 18:09 Christopher If you're really into medical school, go for it. That's all great profession. 18:13 Christopher But it's not for everyone, right? Only a small fraction of students will get there. 18:19 Christopher So look at other options, and studying is great, but do some extracurricular activities, right? 18:27 Christopher So try— so I think extracurricular activities, in a way, those are project management. 18:36 Derek Okay. 18:37 Christopher So, okay, you need to do fundraising, then what are you gonna sell? 18:41 Christopher Where are we gonna sell? You know, those are, I guess, where and when are you gonna sell, right? 18:47 Christopher Like, let's, I guess, when I, in undergrad, we had to do fundraising, Krispy Kreme, sell donuts. 18:56 Christopher Where are you gonna sell? Probably at Sidney Smith, because that's where a lot of students are. 19:00 Derek Okay. 19:01 Christopher They sell probably better at, you know, so probably better when during the exam time when people are stressed, right? 19:09 Christopher So those are the things that you would have to consider. 19:12 Christopher And then, you know, and then after raising the money, you know, coordinating everything is one thing also, like closing in and then do making— do all the math about how much you made. 19:22 Christopher Those are— I think those are all really great experience. 19:25 Derek Mm-hmm. 19:26 Christopher So, so yeah, look at those, experience the world as much as possible, including research, of course, and See what you like. 19:36 Christopher And then again, go to AI and then ask what kind of jobs available. 19:39 Christopher And then which— then look at the job description and see which one fits your interest is probably what I should have done early. 19:49 Derek Did you feel any pressure from any of your family or peers or even the program itself to, uh, for you to aim towards med school? 20:01 Christopher Well, personally, no. My family was, I guess, so supportive whatever I wanted to do, so that was okay. 20:10 Christopher But, you know, I did consider, like, at one point I did consider medical school, you know, pharmacy, you know, those things, because everybody's talking about it. 20:19 Derek Yeah. 20:20 Christopher And then the longer, you know, you're there, like, by like third year or so, you know, like, you hear it so much that you think that that is the norm, that is the way you have to go. 20:29 Christopher So then you, you know, you start casually looking into it. 20:32 Christopher hey, what are the requirements to get into? Like, what are the IAC admission requirements? 20:37 Christopher What are the coursework that I have to take? You know, there were— I guess it's not exactly peer pressure, but then you sort of get locked into that. 20:46 Christopher So I think it's good. If that's what you want to do, then great, go for it. 20:50 Christopher It's a great profession again. But if you're not sure, then maybe try something else, something outside of the university. 20:58 Christopher Or even within the university, what are the opportunities available? And try those out. 21:07 Derek What drew you specifically to Acorn Biolabs and the stem cell or regenerative medicine space? 21:13 Christopher Right. 21:13 Christopher So in universities and at the University of Toronto, in universities, you hear a lot about stem cells, right? 21:22 Christopher So University of Toronto is again one of the leading institutes in the world in stem cell research. 21:28 Christopher But there's also a question of, okay, doing research is great, but how exactly are you going to deliver that to patients? 21:35 Christopher That's a totally different question, right? So commercialization is one thing. 21:40 Christopher And I, so stem, I learned a lot about stem cells, but can you deliver personalized regenerative medicines, personal secretome, sorry, personal stem cells, your personalized stem cells to the patient? 21:55 Christopher And I always, like, it always felt like when you hear about personalized medicine and everything, it feels quite distant, right? 22:03 Christopher It sounds like a thing of the future. But it was really exciting to learn that there's a Toronto company, a Canadian company, a Canadian startup that's sort of like starting their way here, trying to 22:17 Christopher deliver personalized regenerative medicine to everyone. 22:20 Derek Mm-hmm. 22:20 Christopher So that itself was really exciting. And then, you know, I wanted to know more about exactly how we're going to deliver that and what are the potentials. 22:30 Christopher So that's sort of how I became— I guess I joined Acorn. 22:34 Derek That's nice. 22:35 Derek That's amazing. 22:36 Derek Well, thank you so much for your time. This is the first half done. 22:40 Derek We're going to take a break and we're going to be right back for the second half. So stay tuned. 23:42 Given Okay, and we're back with the second half of the So You Study Bio podcast. 23:48 Given So Christopher, going back and thinking back a little bit in the past, how did you land your first research experience as a student at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre? 23:59 Christopher Right, so, oh, actually that's not the first. Actually going back a little bit, but same thing. 24:07 Christopher So I did some— the first research that I did was not a lab work. 24:12 Given Okay. 24:13 Christopher So actually, so I guess it was after my second year or so. 24:17 Christopher I can't remember exactly, but we had a clinic as there was a— 24:23 Given sorry. 24:26 Christopher So allergist— sorry, what allergist? Sorry, one second. 24:29 Given Yeah. 24:30 Christopher So there was an allergist clinic. So who's the doctor who specializes in asthma, and allergic asthma, so allergies. 24:38 Christopher So he was looking for a student, like a summer student for clinical work. 24:43 Christopher And then so he asked one of the colleagues, I guess, or I guess some of the staff that he's working with. 24:49 Christopher And then that staff was a friend of my friend. So I got lucky. So I got introduced in an indirect way. 24:55 Given Okay. 24:56 Christopher And that was my first research experience. So at that time I had no research experience or anything, but it was because it was through someone, someone I knew. 25:05 Christopher It was more I was referred. There was no— he didn't really ask for much. 25:11 Christopher So like, you want to do work, come here, let's do it. 25:14 Christopher And then that helped me get— I guess that was my first— so that's the first research experience that I got. 25:21 Christopher And then after that, so at the University of Toronto, there's an opportunity called, I guess, research exchange. 25:27 Given Okay. 25:28 Christopher Where you can— it's essentially an exchange student where you go to one of the collaborating universities, go there, do a research project, and get a course credit out of it. 25:38 Given That's really cool. 25:39 Christopher Yeah, it's a really good— 25:40 Given So do you swap with another student? 25:42 Christopher It's, um— 25:43 Given Or you just end up going to a different university? 25:46 Christopher It's really going to universities. I guess my understanding is we send students, like University of Toronto sends students over there, and then I guess some students over there can also come, I 25:55 Christopher think. But anyway, so I had an opportunity to go to Hong Kong, so, and that's where, and there's, I think there was a gastric cancer lab, so where I actually was my first experience learning all 26:09 Christopher those you know, techniques, molecular biology techniques, so standard lab work, lab research that I did. 26:16 Christopher And then after that was Sunnybrook. So that was also coursework, a 4th-year project course. 26:22 Christopher So, you know, by the time I had one clinical research experience, one wet lab experience, so it wasn't difficult to get into the program. 26:30 Christopher And then also, you know, they want students to participate and learn. 26:36 Christopher So it's easier than randomly knocking on the door of a lab and then, hey, is there a spot? 26:42 Christopher So actually they give you a list of PIs who are looking for undergrad students. And that's, yeah. 26:49 Given Okay, so you were well suited. What did those experiences that you did initially, like the clinical and wet lab, kind of teach you about what you enjoyed to do in the lab? 27:03 Christopher It really taught me about, like, or it was more opportunity to learn about myself, right? 27:12 Christopher So it was more about, I know there are techniques that I learned, but it was also a good opportunity for me to learn, okay, at what environment do I do better? 27:23 Christopher At what kind of environment do I get to slack off, right? 27:28 Given Yeah. 27:28 Christopher I try, but there are times when I just don't work. 27:31 Christopher I'm not efficient, not productive at all, but in But if you tweak a few things, then for some reason I start working harder, right? 27:40 Christopher What are those tweaks? Like, how am I pushing myself to be more productive? 27:44 Christopher Was one of the things that I learned on top of clinical work and the research work. 27:50 Given So finding that right environment for you kind of thing? 27:53 Christopher Yeah, finding the right environment, yes. 27:54 Given So how did, like you said you went to Hong Kong and did some stuff in Gastric? 28:02 Christopher Yeah, gastric cancer. 28:04 Given Okay, awesome. And then you also did allergy and asthma. 28:09 Given What was— I was kind of curious about the allergy and asthma part. 28:12 Given What was that like? Did you kind of help with patient-facing stuff? 28:19 Christopher So it was more on writing case reports. So there are out of many, you know, there will be a lot of patients, right? 28:29 Christopher I didn't face them directly, but there's a small fraction of patients who I guess has symptoms or like findings that are either rare or unknown. 28:45 Given Okay. 28:46 Christopher Or are very unique where like probability of finding this is very low and something that people never thought about but maybe should start paying attention to. 28:55 Christopher Right? So initially I was tasked to look at the customer chart, sorry, the patient chart, and go through, okay, what was unique about this patient? 29:06 Christopher What happened? After what change this happened? And then how do we treat it? 29:12 Christopher And why is it important for the medical community to be aware of this possible case? 29:19 Christopher And that's essentially a manuscript, a paper that we publish in a medical journal. 29:23 Given Oh, okay. 29:24 Christopher So it's a bit different from, I guess, research in a sense that you design an experiment and you run stats and then, you know, get significant values and then write something based off of it. It's more so than— it's more of a report. 29:38 Given Okay. So if students were interested, like an undergraduate student, maybe 3rd or 4th year, is interested in trying to get into that type of research outside of maybe just their institution, what advice maybe would you offer to them? 29:59 Christopher It's hard. Honestly, I was very lucky, but look for opportunities, right? 30:04 Christopher But look for opportunities doesn't just mean emailing professors, but it may sound weird, but live your day, work hard, whatever you're doing. 30:17 Christopher If it's studying, study hard. If it's like, I don't know, if you're volunteering at a place, then— 30:24 Given Be good. 30:25 Christopher just do your job, volunteer, and then sincerely, and, you know, that, and get to know other people, right? 30:32 Christopher You may not necessarily know what kind of opportunities are out there, and I didn't know it either, but, you know, just that's what I built reputation in my own way, and then that's sort of how I was referred to the clinic. 30:45 Given Okay. 30:46 Christopher So like doing your basic, like, you know, basic work to get to know what are like, you know, Googling, searching, and what are the jobs available. 30:54 Christopher So that's important, but also I would say build your relationship, build your reputation, and you never know what kind of opportunities would come to you. 31:02 Given And for students who are kind of wondering more about your role, maybe what's one thing that you would say you really like about what you do? 31:10 Given And one thing that you kind of— because you were talking before about understanding the environment you have to be in to work best, to be most efficient. 31:19 Given What's something that maybe you love about here or just in general being a lab manager? And maybe one thing that you could pass up on? 31:34 Christopher So when you ask students, like life science students, why do you want to go to med school, medical school, a lot of time they like to help patients and to create That's definitely one great way to 31:47 Christopher help patients and then contributing to your community. 31:52 Christopher The other way is— but it's not the only way. The way I'm taking is I'm supporting a lab that can support the community. 32:02 Given Right. 32:03 Christopher So I have to make sure the lab is running safe and then everything is functional so that the product can be delivered on time. 32:11 Christopher The cells and tissues are, even hair follicles, they're fragile in nature. 32:15 Christopher So they have to be in the perfect condition to be able to produce the product that we want. 32:21 Given Right. 32:22 Christopher And do we have the right reagents? Are they like, are they expired or not? 32:26 Christopher You know, are the temperatures correct? Like, make sure you monitor all the temperatures, you know, stock up the environment and then make sure to review Everything that I do essentially is going to 32:40 Christopher benefit someone, right? Can I create a product that can help with their— right now it's like rejuvenating their skin or maybe helping their hair growth, helping hair growth to a certain extent. 32:55 Christopher And I think that itself is really valuable and very rewarding. 32:58 Christopher It can be hard, but everything you do is benefiting the patients. 33:04 Christopher in an indirect way. So that's something what I like about my work. 33:09 Christopher The other, I guess what I not, I guess I don't love, what I not love about my job is, you know, things happen. 33:15 Given Yeah. 33:16 Christopher Right? Always something unexpected happen, right? 33:20 Christopher You saw something happened, you, okay, you come up with plans and everything to fix that. 33:25 Christopher All of a sudden something else pops up and then now, okay, that's new. 33:29 Christopher How am I gonna tackle that? Let's think, let's sit down and think about it. 33:33 Christopher Okay, let's put a band-aid first, but how are we gonna prevent this issue. 33:37 Christopher So it's rewarding, it's definitely rewarding, but sometimes could be challenging. 33:42 Given I hear you. And I'd say it's probably a big jump in responsibility too, going from like just, I don't want to say run-of-the-mill, but like your typical researcher versus somebody who's going to 33:56 Given manage the lab. So how do you, what would you say maybe is the biggest jump going from From just being a researcher to actually managing everything? 34:09 Christopher Well, it's really same for any kind of job. Once you get the title of manager, you start managing people. 34:16 Christopher That is never easy. I really appreciate everyone in my lab, but the question is, life is not as simple as, hey, you go do your job and do very good at it. 34:29 Christopher You're great. It doesn't work that way, right? How am I going to provide an environment where people can excel? 34:35 Christopher People don't worry about things that they don't have to worry about. 34:38 Christopher And then also, how am I going to provide motivations, right? 34:43 Christopher And then when people are lost, how am I going to provide them with a direction? 34:50 Christopher In order for me to do that, I really need to know what's going on. 34:54 Christopher I need to know all the process that's happening in the lab from A to Z. 34:58 Christopher to guide them with the directions, right? A lot of time, I don't know what's going on either, right? 35:04 Christopher You have— I have to do my homework to understand or try your best to understand what's going on, make a best educated guess, and then pretend you know everything and then try to guide them through and then put a bandaid as necessary. 35:16 Given I got you, okay. And when did you learn that you kind of liked that operation side? 35:24 Given you know, just as much as the discovery side, or were you just kind of like shipped into it, here you go? 35:29 Christopher Well, it's, uh, it just happened to be in that position, right? 35:33 Christopher But now, how do I know that I like it? You know, when I look at someone else interviewing, all these kind of things, people saying, oh, I love this job, you know, that kind of thing, oh, I love what 35:45 Christopher I'm doing, they say as if they instantly found out that they love this job. 35:51 Christopher I don't know, for me it wasn't always like that, right? 35:55 Christopher One thing I for sure knew was I'm not a best researcher. I didn't really love my research life. 36:03 Given Yeah. 36:04 Christopher But when I started working on the operations, it didn't stress out as much. 36:09 Christopher I think that's already enough, right? From being every day stressed, every single day being worried about everything, To, you know, you know what, I do this job, I know there are issues, but after 36:21 Christopher that, I'm like, after I leave, you know, go home, everything is fine. 36:25 Christopher Yeah, yeah. So that is sort of— that first, uh, shows me, okay, maybe this is something I can do. 36:33 Christopher I don't dislike it, at least. So let's go for this. 36:36 Given Okay, yeah. What are some things you would say is like, if you had to make a checklist, like a student is in their undergraduate and they're thinking, hmm, I wonder if biotech would be something for 36:49 Given me. What would you say is maybe like a curiosity checklist that they could go through and say, yeah, I tick this box, I tick this box, I tick this box, biotech might be for me? 37:03 Christopher I guess, I guess the very first thing is, do you like biology? 37:08 Christopher By all, I'm not saying, oh, do you like biology as a major? 37:12 Christopher But just the things that biology research or biology work can do. Does that interest you? 37:18 Given Okay. 37:19 Christopher Right. So if you ask some— I don't know, if you ask me, do you like law? 37:24 Derek Probably not. 37:27 Christopher So I— and then do I think I like being a pharmacist, like working at a pharmacy, or become a doctor? 37:37 Christopher Honestly, I don't see myself loving it. It may sound weird, but I don't want to spend my entire day seeing patients the entire day. 37:48 Given Yeah. 37:49 Christopher Do I like that? I like the— I love the concept of like helping patients, improving their quality of life. 37:55 Christopher But is this like patient interaction is something that I want to do? 37:59 Christopher Probably not. So that's sort of— that's one thing, right? 38:04 Christopher So you don't have to love biology, but at least don't dislike it. 38:09 Given Okay. 38:10 Christopher And then does it like, you know, something like biology news or drug news, like news about a new drug or an incident that happened because of the drug, like out of like 100 news available, do you 38:24 Christopher click that and then do you find yourself reading it? That's one way to see. 38:28 Given Yeah. 38:29 Christopher But it's, you know, it doesn't have to be that way, but like you have to know, do you ask yourself, do you like it, or do you at least do you not dislike it? 38:36 Derek Okay. 38:36 Christopher I think that's very first thing to do. And then, okay, well, do you like lab work or I guess, you know, can you understand biology? 38:50 Christopher It's important. You don't have to be great at that, but at least do you understand the most important concepts of it and why certain things are important? 38:58 Christopher You know, why maintaining this particular environment is important. 39:01 Christopher If you can understand that and, you know, you don't dislike it, then yes. 39:06 Christopher Helping others through more of an indirect way. I know it's very vague and high level, but I think everyday work can differ a lot depending on your position. 39:17 Christopher And then I think it doesn't matter what kind of industry you go in, daily day-to-day work is a lot of time boring. 39:26 Given Yeah. 39:27 Christopher But do you like the big cause of it? I think that is the factor. 39:32 Christopher Lab work, as much as it can be fun, it can be quite depressing and frustrating at the same time. 39:39 Christopher Lab work doesn't always go as you intended. Even after that, do you like working in this environment? 39:47 Christopher I think for that, I think you really have to, you know, you really have to like what the biotech is trying to do. 39:55 Given And what about for yourself? Do you see, or would you want to continue advancing your career in this space? 40:04 Given Like, is it something where you would want to keep working indefinitely, or do you see— because I know you're talking about maybe doing teaching at a point and that kind of thing. 40:15 Christopher Well, never say never. Who knows? For— of course, for now I have no plan to change the industry or anything, but never say never. Who knows? Life is long. 40:22 Given Yeah. 40:23 Christopher Having said that, yes, I love what I'm doing. Again, I don't like patient interactions, but I do love contributing to the medical society, medical community in my own way. 40:40 Christopher I really find that rewarding. And then also there are many other hurdles that as a company that we have to go through. 40:47 Christopher Right now, again, we're offering an aesthetic serum. 40:51 Christopher But we do want to turn it into a therapeutic product one day. 40:54 Given Oh, awesome. 40:54 Given Right. 40:55 Christopher That's our long-term goal. And there are a lot of regulatory hurdles involved in there, right? 41:00 Christopher Associated with that. Right. You know, going through clinical trials and then on the lab side, there are a lot more stringent regulations coming in, you know, navigating through there, navigating all 41:12 Christopher those hurdles and then getting to the therapeutic space would be very exciting. 41:17 Given Are there any important— and this is kind of more student-facing— but skills that you learned in your undergraduate or master's that are very like relevant to what it is that you do now? 41:29 Given Because I think we learned some techniques in lab that are kind of like, yeah, are we really gonna use this? 41:38 Christopher I guess it's again, it's all about the translate, like, you know, transferable skills. Yes. Right. 41:43 Given Okay. 41:43 Christopher Lab work is like learning lab technique is great. 41:47 Christopher I can do this, this, this, this technique. But what's really important is, are you able to do that experiment? 41:54 Christopher Are you able to run that, I guess, run, like I guess carry out that run and whatever assay you're doing properly? I think that's what matters the most. 42:04 Given Yeah. 42:05 Christopher Do you understand what you're doing? And what are the important things to be aware of when you're running that? 42:13 Christopher Those are what's really important. So as long as you understand, as long as you have the transferable skills, we can always teach you. 42:22 Christopher Teaching you is not the hard part. It's really like, as a company, can we make sure that you have all the— are you willing to learn? 42:34 Christopher Are you someone, if we teach, are you gonna try and learn, try to— someone who's gonna try to try your best to master it? 42:41 Christopher That's what's important, I think. So even when I said extracurricular activities, lab works, a lot of time people just think about, oh, can I do this molecular assay? 42:50 Given Yeah. 42:52 Christopher Can I run gel electrophoresis? Yeah, that's important. 42:55 Christopher But like, are you a learner? And then are you— do you— that's always important. 43:01 Christopher Are you a learner? Are you willing to learn always? 43:03 Christopher Are you humble enough to be open and like, you know, open to learning new things? 43:09 Christopher And then also, can you communicate with other team members effectively? 43:14 Given Mm-hmm. 43:15 Christopher You know, nothing— there's nothing that you can achieve or do alone. 43:19 Christopher So it's really important that you can— you don't really have to be— I'm not saying you have to be best friends, you're colleagues or anything, but like, can you deliver your message well? 43:32 Christopher And are you able to convey and present your idea clearly so that whoever you're working with can understand your goal and then be aligned with it. 43:41 Christopher And then I guess get to that goal together. I think those are what's really important. 43:48 Given So biology doesn't prepare you for everything. Are there— 43:52 Christopher Everything, yes. 43:52 Given Are there any kind of important minors that you would pair with biology for thinking about your role now, things that could have been helpful for you to learn? 44:03 Christopher You mean as a minor, as a program? 44:06 Given Yeah. 44:08 Christopher So it's not really about my role specifically, but I keep thinking myself maybe I should have taken more statistics. 44:16 Christopher So there's— I only took one semester statistics course, and I thought that's the bare minimum requirement I needed, so I only took that one. 44:29 Christopher And I heard the other, the second part of the course was really hard. 44:33 Christopher But now that I think about it, maybe I should have taken that to understand statistics more. 44:38 Given Right. 44:39 Christopher That's something that's commonly used in, in a research setting. 44:43 Christopher And then also in clinical work, clinical trial runs all sorts of statistical analysis. 44:50 Christopher So not necessarily a minor, but it would have been nice if I took more statistics and have a better background. 44:59 Given Okay. That's really good, I think, advice too for undergraduates. 45:03 Given What do you think is a piece of advice that you would offer to an undergraduate student who's trying to land their first research? 45:14 Christopher First research? 45:15 Given Yeah. 45:15 Christopher Okay. Well, if you're looking for your first research job or research position, you don't have anything. 45:23 Christopher You don't have any research experience. So when you don't have experience, you have no other option. 45:30 Christopher All you have to just keep knocking the doors. It is frustrating. 45:34 Christopher It is hard. I know. But don't be discouraged. You know, like a lot of professors will ignore you. 45:42 Given Yeah. 45:42 Christopher But don't blame them. It's not just you approaching. 45:47 Christopher A lot of people are approaching for all sorts of reasons, not just through email, LinkedIn, all sorts of things. 45:52 Christopher So it's almost impossible for someone to like respond to every message. 45:58 Christopher I'm pretty sure once you become a professor or once you become someone high, you will do the same. 46:04 Given Yeah. 46:04 Christopher So don't be discouraged, just knock, constantly knock the doors. 46:09 Christopher But at the same time, again, live your life. Whatever you're doing, just do hard, right? 46:16 Christopher If you're working, work hard. If you're studying, studying hard. 46:19 Christopher If you're volunteering, volunteering hard. And then you know, look for many other opportunities as much as possible. 46:26 Christopher So again, I did research exchange. So some people— I realized some people don't know that those kind of opportunities exist. 46:36 Christopher So look for opportunities and then even approach university or like see what are the programs that they offer and see where— I guess see what you can do. 46:47 Given Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Christopher. We really appreciate your time. 46:51 Given That has been it for this episode of the So You Studied Bio podcast. 46:56 Given Thank you guys for tuning in, and we will catch you on the next one. 47:00 Christopher Thank you. 47:58 Given A huge thank you to Christopher for taking the time to sit down with us and share his story, and thank you to Acorn Biolabs for hosting us. 48:05 Given It meant a lot to get to see where all of this work actually happens. 48:09 Given If you're a student interested in working at Acorn Biolabs or curious about an internship there, check out their website and apply at acorn.me. 48:17 Given I think the big takeaway from this conversation is that there's more to helping people than just medicine. 48:22 Given Biotech is one path, but there are so many ways to make a real difference in people's health and quality of life. 48:29 Given Thanks again, Christopher, and thank you all for watching. 48:32 Given We'll see you next time on the next episode of So You Studied Bio.
