Wendy Rorong shows how a background in biology can lead far beyond the paths students usually expect. She built a creative career as a makeup artist, hairstylist, and nail artist, bringing together technical knowledge, artistry, adaptability, and an entrepreneurial mindset in an industry far removed from the traditional biology lab.
Transcript click a line to jump the video Hide Transcript▴ 00:00 Given Bro, you know I got this date tomorrow? 00:03 Derek Oh, you got a date? Yeah, man. 00:04 Given That's fire. I'm excited, bro. 00:06 Derek That's nice, bro. 00:07 Given Yeah. 00:08 Derek Uh, where are you going to? 00:10 Given We're gonna go to, uh, Eastside Mario's. Okay. 00:14 Derek Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. 00:17 Given So let me see what she look like. You wanna see? 00:19 Derek Yeah. 00:19 Given I'll show you. She's so fine, I tell you. 00:24 Derek Oh, Oh, well, you're not going to like this, bro. 00:30 Given But what are you talking about, bro? 00:33 Derek Trust me, you do not want to look at yourself in the camera. 00:36 Given What do you mean? 00:37 Derek What's wrong? All right, take a look. 00:40 Wendy I'm waiting. Take a look. Okay. 00:44 Given Oh. Oh, my God. 00:46 Derek Oh, my God, bro. Relax, relax. Okay. I know somebody to call. She's going to get you. 00:52 Given She can't fix this. 00:53 Derek She can get you right. She's a top-tier person. This is horrible. 00:55 Derek Don't worry, bro. No, your date is not cooked. I can call the right person. You trust me? 01:01 Given All right, if you say so, bro. 01:04 Wendy Okay. 01:05 Given Hello? 01:07 Derek Hey, Wendy, uh, there's an emergency right now. 01:10 Given Could you please pull up? Thank you so much. 01:13 Derek Thank you. All right, don't worry, bro. 01:16 Wendy You're good. 01:17 Derek Trust me. Okay. Hey, Wendy, thanks for coming. 01:19 Wendy Yeah, of course. What's up? Oh no! That's it. 01:31 Given Oh, it's all done? 01:32 Wendy Yeah. Gosh. 01:34 Derek See, I told you. What time is your date? 01:38 Given What time? 01:38 Derek Yeah. 01:39 Given It does look— wait, what time? 01:41 Derek Yeah, what time is your date? 01:43 Given Oh my God, bro, I missed it. Oh my God. 01:53 Derek Welcome back everybody to the Soe Study Bio podcast. 01:57 Derek Today we're joined by Wendy Rourong. Nice to meet you, Wendy. 02:00 Wendy Nice to meet you. 02:01 Derek So we're your hosts. I'm Derek and we have Given behind the camera right now. 02:05 Derek So yeah, let's get straight into it. Yeah, so for those who are watching who don't know who you are, what do you do? 02:13 Wendy So my name is Wendy Rourong. I am a makeup artist, hairstylist, and nail artist based in Toronto. 02:19 Derek Amazing. 02:20 Wendy Yeah. 02:21 Derek So you have an honors BSc in biology, chemistry, and psychology from UTM. 02:27 Derek Now you do makeup, hair, and nails for people like Salma Hayek, Dakota Johnson, and Gigi Hadid. 02:34 Derek What usually the first— what's usually the first reaction when people learn about your degree? 02:40 Wendy It's funny, I feel like I don't usually talk about it. 02:44 Wendy I feel like I've lived many lives and this is just my past You know, first life that I've lived. 02:50 Wendy But people are usually surprised to see someone coming from like a science degree to do makeup. 02:58 Wendy But, you know, people come from, I think, all sorts of backgrounds and end up somewhere. 03:02 Wendy It's just like how, you know, wherever life takes you, right? 03:05 Derek Yeah. 03:06 Wendy Yeah. 03:07 Derek So you would say that the most, like, the population, it's usually like mind-blowing? 03:13 Wendy Yeah, it's like, what? You did? And I think the other thing is also Because I look so young, people probably thought I started doing makeup when I was in high school, you know? 03:24 Wendy But I actually started doing makeup a little bit later in life. 03:28 Wendy I started doing it probably in the middle of university. 03:33 Wendy When I was in high school, I didn't really wear much makeup, to be honest. So, yeah. 03:39 Derek So if a 19-year-old version of yourself was sitting in a biology lecture room at UTM, they saw where your career actually ended up, What do you think she'd say? 03:50 Wendy I would say, honestly, if you follow your heart and continue being passionate about what you do, you'll never know where life will take you. 04:01 Wendy You know, you just have to believe in yourself, literally. 04:05 Given Yeah. 04:06 Wendy Yeah. 04:07 Derek I feel like your 19-year-old self would be mind-blown as well. 04:10 Wendy Oh my God. I'd be like, what are you talking about? 04:15 Derek Was there one specific moment that you'd point to as basically a turning point from a science student to a professional artist? Or was it more gradual in a way that— 04:26 Wendy Definitely more of a gradual thing, you know. I think growing up, I didn't know anyone who does makeup professionally like that, unless you like work at like a counter or salon or whatnot. 04:39 Wendy But to do it full-time and make a living out of it instead of just doing it as a hobby, I didn't know anyone. 04:45 Wendy So I think for me, it was kind of like, okay, like, what are, you know, how can I make this into a career? Like, is there such a life for me? 04:56 Given Yeah. 04:57 Wendy So I started just doing my research, and, you know, you look at this like magazine editorials, I'm like, someone must be doing makeup for these magazines, right? 05:06 Wendy And I was like, let me look into how I can put myself in that position. So yeah. 05:12 Derek What made you choose that specific combination of biology, chemistry, and psychology? 05:18 Derek Was there ever like a plan A that involved a lab coat? 05:22 Wendy I think it was just, you know, I just picked the subjects that I like, you know? 05:26 Wendy And I think that initially my like chosen career path was to go into pharmacy after my undergraduate was finished. 05:37 Wendy So funny enough, I wanted to get experience first working at a pharmacy on my last year of university, so I'm so close to the end. 05:46 Wendy I was like, well, before I apply to all these like pharmacy, you know, like universities, like let me see if like, um, I would like the career first. 05:58 Wendy So I just walked into the closest pharmacy near where I lived and I asked like, oh, do you guys need a part-timer or an intern, like anything? 06:08 Wendy And so I started like working there actually for like probably 6 months. 06:13 Wendy And then in that short 6-month span, I was like, yeah, I don't think this is for me, man. 06:21 Wendy I think it's like I never realized how much of, of like a creative like field that I need to be in, and I can't be like confined in like that kind of space. 06:35 Wendy And I know like, oh, you can probably like do other things if you want to with your science degree. 06:40 Wendy But I think at that point I had realized that I think I need to do something more like creative with my life. So yeah. 06:50 Derek So what about when you were younger? Do you think there was a point where you were like, I don't think I fit in the box of science? I want to— 07:01 Wendy I've always been good at science and things like that, and like I like drawing, but I don't think I honed into that. 07:08 Wendy Like, I like little art-making, arts and crafts things, but I was like, oh, it's just like a hobby. 07:14 Wendy Because I think growing up in an Asian household, my parents are always like, you know, oh, you gotta like do well in school, like get a degree, like that kind of like mindset. 07:24 Wendy So going into like a creative field was not really like an option, you know. 07:30 Wendy I think I think as you get older and you try to like discover yourself, you learn more about like, you know what, I really don't think that I can do that, and I think I need to be doing something 07:43 Wendy more like this in order to be happy. So I just like followed my heart. 07:48 Derek How did your family react when you told them that you were building a career in makeup and hair instead of a science-based one? 07:54 Wendy Well, it was definitely hard, I think, for my my parents to hear, especially because it was like, what? 08:01 Wendy But you've already like put in the work. And, and I thought, well, let me just show you like how, how this life would be if I, if I don't go into pharmacy now. 08:14 Wendy That's okay, maybe I can apply like the next year, right? I was like, let me just like give it a try. 08:18 Derek Yeah. 08:19 Wendy And I needed to show my parents that I'm able to make a living out of it and be happy doing it, you know? 08:28 Wendy And like, if I ever want to go back, I already have my science degree to back me up and I can always go back if I want to. 08:35 Wendy But I think that at that point in my life, I really needed to try it, you know? 08:39 Derek Yeah. Was makeup and hair already a part of your life during your undergrad or that came much later? 08:44 Wendy I mean, I think that I didn't really like start doing hair and makeup until late in my life. 08:54 Wendy I didn't wear a lot of makeup in high school. I tried. 08:57 Wendy I think the first eyeshadow I ever bought from MAC was this like frosty pink eyeshadow, and I wore it to school one day, and like this girl told me, it's like, you need to blend it a little bit more. 09:10 Wendy So I think from that point onwards, I was like, okay, eyeshadow needs to be blended. 09:15 Wendy Okay. But then I didn't really like, you know, pursue it like further. 09:20 Wendy I was just like, whatever. I didn't really wear much makeup. 09:24 Wendy And then like later on, I, you know, like the YouTube era of makeup started to like become popular, and I was like watching these tutorials. 09:32 Wendy And like, I've always had this mindset of like, if I see something, I was like, I can do that too, you know? 09:40 Given Yeah. 09:40 Wendy So I just started like experimenting and playing around, and I was like, you know what, this is really fun. 09:47 Wendy It's so cool that you can change how you look and how it makes you feel based on like, you know, just like a little bit of color, you know, here and there. I'm like, I thought it was like, that's so cool. 10:01 Derek Okay, so walk me through what happened right after your graduation. 10:05 Derek How did you go from a finished science degree to your first paid booking doing hair or makeup? 10:13 Wendy I think it was a lot of like knocking on doors, like networking. 10:17 Wendy And I had kind of researched like all these like photographers that I want to work with. 10:23 Wendy And somebody had mentioned to me this like networking website where you can like find people who are kind of like in the same position as you, who wants to like build their portfolio. 10:35 Wendy So you would just like get together and shoot something, and nothing was paid. 10:38 Wendy But it was like, oh, but this is fun. It's like you put in the work and you see how the photos come out after. 10:46 Wendy And I was like, oh, that's cool that I did that, you know? 10:48 Given Yeah. 10:48 Wendy It was very rewarding. And so eventually, all these, like, you know, like, things, like, kind of led to, like, you know, like, oh, somebody needs it done for, like, an event or whatever. 11:02 Wendy So that was, like, probably the first paid booking that I've ever done. 11:05 Wendy Oh, also, I think I remember— I don't know if it was a smart thing for me to do back then. 11:11 Wendy Like, also, when I started makeup, we didn't have Instagram, right? 11:15 Wendy Because it was a long time ago. I started makeup 17 years ago. Instagram was not a thing. And so— 11:21 Derek How do you get your work out to people? 11:25 Wendy Um, I used to crash industry parties and meet people. 11:30 Wendy But I remember I like I saw this, like, almost like a casting call for, like, oh, this photographer needs hair and makeup done for this shoot. 11:38 Wendy And I just had to go to his apartment in Toronto to do it in his, like, apartment. 11:46 Wendy And, like, I was, like, set up in, like, this dingy room. 11:49 Wendy And I was like, going to a stranger's apartment by myself was probably, like, not a great idea now when I think about it, you know? 11:56 Wendy And so, but I think doing that, and I had such a minimal kit, you know? 12:02 Wendy I think that taught me like, oh, I can work under any circumstances, you know? 12:06 Wendy It's like under whatever kind of lighting, whatever situation, you can make anything work. Yeah, just have to be resourceful. 12:15 Derek What was the hardest part of breaking into an industry like fashion and beauty with no formal training or portfolio to that point yet? 12:24 Wendy I think it was a lot of hard work in the beginning. 12:28 Wendy Nobody knew who I was. Nobody You know, I didn't have any connection to anyone, so I reached out to a few agencies in Toronto and I was like, oh, can I like have a meeting? 12:41 Wendy I want you to like kind of like take a look at my current portfolio and criticize me. 12:47 Wendy I want to be criticized and see like where I need to improve, like what kind of work do I need to be doing more of, and like— you know, just see like a professional's opinion. 12:58 Wendy And I was like, okay, I'm like ready for this feedback, right? 13:01 Wendy I had a little bit of like work already in my portfolio. 13:05 Wendy It's not much, but it's just something to showcase what I can do. 13:09 Derek Yeah. 13:10 Wendy And so I met up with a few. Some of them I was like, I don't think we're like a great fit, so I never pursued it. 13:15 Wendy And then I had a meeting with Plutino Group and they had really good feedback for me and like told me things that I need to improve on. 13:25 Wendy And also, they believed in me from the beginning. 13:29 Wendy So I assisted a lot when I was like starting out. 13:35 Wendy Sometimes you assist for so little money, sometimes even like nothing, you know? 13:40 Wendy It's just you're there for experience. But I was like, I was young, I was eager, I was like, I'm a fast learner, so I'm like learning like a sponge, you know? 13:50 Given Yeah. 13:51 Wendy I think that's how I started putting my foot in this industry. 13:56 Wendy And then from there, it was kind of like word of mouth. 14:01 Wendy If people see your work ethic and see that your attitude is good and you kind of have this work etiquette, eventually you land your own jobs. Right? Yeah. 14:20 Derek How did you connect with Plutino Group and what actually changed in your career once you had agency representation? 14:27 Wendy So funny, I randomly saw this post on Facebook saying Plutino had like a party to relaunch their website or something. 14:38 Wendy I can't remember, it was so long ago. And I was like, man, I don't know anyone at this party. 14:43 Wendy But like, let me just go. So it was definitely like nerve-wracking. 14:49 Wendy I was like, oh my God, like going to a party where you know nobody. You don't know anybody. 14:53 Derek That's— I wouldn't do that in this day and age. 14:56 Wendy But that's what I've learned too. It's like in this industry, like you really have to put yourself out there. 15:01 Wendy And like I said, like social media wasn't a thing then, right? 15:04 Wendy So I don't really know anyone, and like I don't know who this person is. 15:08 Wendy Are you a hairstylist? Are you a makeup artist? Are you like an agent? 15:12 Wendy Like who knows, but I was just like introducing myself to everyone. 15:15 Wendy I was like, yeah, well, I am like, you know, like a new makeup artist. 15:19 Wendy And if you ever— I met with this makeup artist at the party and I was like, if you ever need an assistant, please let me know. 15:26 Wendy So yeah, and I think Pultino noticed me there. So then from there they kind of like, oh yeah, I remember you, I saw you, you know, during the— like you came in for like a go-see. 15:40 Wendy called, right? When you come in and they review your portfolio, it's like, yeah, yeah. 15:44 Wendy And so I think when people see you, like, they put you first in their mind also. 15:51 Wendy So like, I feel like within the same week I got a call from them saying that, oh, they needed an assistant for like this, like for this makeup artist. 16:01 Wendy She's doing a shoot for a fashion magazine. I was like, oh my God, that's so cool. Okay, I'm in. 16:06 Derek That's amazing. 16:07 Wendy Yeah. 16:07 Derek So what does a talent agency for hair and makeup artists do for you on a day-to-day basis that outside people from the industry might not really realize? 16:18 Wendy I think it's like what people don't know is that I don't work for Pultino. 16:22 Wendy Pultino works for me. So it's kind of like they are actively looking for jobs for me and for all the other artists on the roster. 16:32 Wendy roster, and they are submitting names. And it's like, well, you know, reaching out to production companies to be like, if you ever need like a team of like, uh, like a glam team, like let us know, we 16:43 Wendy can like put together a team for you. And like, here's like, you know, our list of like artists, blah blah blah. 16:49 Wendy They also like, um, they do so much for me. They do all the reaching out. 16:55 Wendy So for me, all I have to do at point is like I show up to set, I do my job, and they do all the billing and everything. So it's, it's awesome. 17:05 Derek Amazing, amazing. So looking back over your career, what's one skill or habit that's not from school but from the industry itself that made the biggest difference? 17:17 Wendy Honestly, I think it's communication skills. Communication is key in this industry. 17:23 Wendy You have to make sure you, like, you and the client understand each other. 17:28 Derek Yeah. 17:29 Wendy As a makeup artist, I need to understand what is the goal of this shoot. 17:34 Wendy Is it like, oh, is it to showcase the clothes? Is it to— is it like a beauty campaign where you want to— it's like a skincare campaign where you need to see the skin texture? 17:45 Wendy And, um, it's just like, yeah, it's like a, you know, it's a collaboration. 17:50 Wendy of sorts, right? And I need to understand what they're looking out of this shoot and what I can provide. So I think communication, definitely. 18:02 Derek Well, thank you so much for your time, Wendy. That's going to be the first half of the episode. 18:07 Derek We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with the second half of the episode. So stay tuned. 19:07 Given Okay, and we're back with the second half of the episode. 19:12 Given So Wendy, freelance artistry means that your income and schedule isn't necessarily guaranteed. 19:18 Given So what has that unpredictability taught you about, you know, your work and how you navigate things? 19:25 Wendy You have to be so flexible, and you have to be good at managing your money, I suppose, you know, because in the beginning when I started my career, it was like Well, I was doing a lot of free work 19:38 Wendy because I was building my book. And the paid work will come few and far in between. 19:43 Wendy So I need to know how to be good with my money and not overspend. 19:48 Wendy Like, I'll buy all this new makeup. You got to make it work with what you have until you can advance, right? 19:54 Given So kind of like saving and being frugal in some ways? 19:57 Wendy Being frugal in a way. But I was also living with my parents at the time when I was starting my career. So I think that helped a lot. 20:04 Given Yeah. So there's some things that— You don't necessarily have to come out of yourself to— 20:08 Wendy Exactly, because I guess, you know, I'm very lucky. 20:12 Wendy When I started my career, I started freelancing basically full-time. 20:17 Wendy So a lot of people that I've spoken to, usually they'll have to start like working part-time at a counter and then taking on jobs when they can. 20:26 Wendy But sometimes you miss a lot of opportunities because it's like, well, you can't give away a shift or whatnot, right? 20:31 Wendy But because I was doing it full-time. I'm literally, hey man, I'm free anytime anyone needs me. 20:37 Wendy So yeah, like I think I was able to snag a lot of opportunities that way. 20:42 Given That's good. Yeah, so making yourself available. 20:44 Wendy Exactly. Yeah. 20:45 Given I also wonder, does your like chemistry background ever come up in terms of like when you're working, like you're reading an ingredient list or seeing why like a product works on somebody's skin? 20:57 Wendy Not much, but I think it's like You know, I always ask my— whoever's sitting in my chair if they have like any sensitivities or allergies, things like that. 21:06 Wendy Sometimes, you know, something that works well on somebody with very similar skin type could react a completely different way on somebody. 21:14 Wendy So you're always, you know, you always have to communicate. 21:17 Wendy And like, if something does happen, if somebody has a reaction, then you just have to be calm. 21:23 Given Okay, I get you. 21:25 Wendy Yeah. 21:25 Given Have you ever had to like Problem solver reaction or sensitivity on a client? 21:29 Wendy All the time. It's like, I think this job is about like, you have to be on your toes all the time, and things don't go your way like 50% of the time, right? 21:40 Wendy That's just life, you know. Sometimes it's like, I've had this like a situation where, well, I was putting on a toner on this, on this model, and she said she doesn't She's not allergic to anything. 21:54 Wendy Her skin is not hyperreactive, and she suddenly got like really, really like red. 22:00 Wendy Like her skin kind of like started to go red. And I was like, oh no, what do I do? 22:05 Wendy It's like, okay, it's okay. Don't alarm her because then it'll just escalate, you know. 22:09 Wendy So you just have to stay calm. Removed it right away. 22:12 Wendy I, you know, like wiped everything off and was like, you know, like give it like a few seconds. 22:16 Wendy Maybe it'll come down. If not, then I'll figure something out, you know. 22:20 Given Yeah. 22:20 Wendy And then in 5 minutes, it calmed down already. But I think that if I had panicked at that time, I was like, oh my God, what do I do? 22:28 Wendy It makes her panic too. It's like, oh my God, what's happening to my skin? 22:31 Wendy It makes things worse. So you just have to stay calm and like, you know, problem solve without making it look like— don't show your internal panic. 22:42 Given But do you feel like there's even a piece of your degree like biology or chemistry-wise that you actually you would use? 22:50 Wendy Maybe subconsciously, yeah. You know, like, I think people, when they think, oh, if your oil production is— if you have like really oily skin, then the solution is to like really mattify your skin. 23:05 Given Yeah. 23:05 Wendy But I think it's like sometimes, you know, it will do the exact opposite. 23:10 Wendy It will make your skin produce more oil. So I think you just need to find like a balance. 23:15 Wendy It's like, you know, like nothing is ever too extreme, you know? 23:19 Wendy You just have to be like, you know, good at finding the balance. 23:22 Wendy And sometimes it's like a trial and error, you know? 23:24 Wendy Like you're like in a lab working on something. If it doesn't work, okay, let's try like something else, you know? 23:29 Given Yeah, yeah. And your portfolio includes some pretty like big names. We were looking through it. 23:36 Wendy Yeah. 23:36 Given Adrien Brody, Seth Rogen, Jessica Chastain. probably like the first thing that you would do when you meet a high-profile client? Or like, how do you leverage it? 23:47 Wendy I've never approached like meeting celebrities as like, oh my God, I am like freaking out. 23:54 Wendy I'm like, this is still like a job and I'm here as a professional, not as a fan, you know? 23:58 Wendy Yeah. So I think it's like you go in, you just introduce yourself. 24:02 Wendy Like, I would do a little bit of research on the actor just for me to know how do they normally like their hair and makeup. 24:10 Wendy This is like part of like my research, right? And I was like, sometimes I am given so little time to get somebody ready that like I have to skip all of this like questions like, how do you like your 24:22 Wendy this? How do you want this? Like, I was like, no, no, just like have a general idea and go in and assess like on the spot, you know? 24:30 Derek Yeah. 24:30 Wendy So I think I always approach it like, you They're just people. 24:34 Wendy And don't put so much pressure sometimes. They're just people. 24:37 Wendy They want to be treated like normal people, to just have a normal conversation. 24:42 Wendy But you also have to be good at reading the room. 24:46 Wendy Sometimes if they're in a situation where they're stressed from work or they're tired after flying and it's like they're jet-lagged, then— 24:55 Given You don't want to force it. 24:56 Wendy Then you don't want to force any But maybe they just want to do it in like in quiet too. That's fine by me, you know? Yeah, true. 25:04 Given Now, all of— from like literally all of the work that we've seen of you, it always looks perfect. 25:10 Given Like you just have everything together. Can you recall maybe like a memorable like everything's going wrong moment? 25:19 Wendy I think the biggest thing like, like faux pas that I've done probably is like I forgot my brushes to set. 25:28 Wendy That's a pretty big one. Oh my God, I was like, I had a job the day before, so I always like wash my brushes after every job and I like lay them out like to dry. 25:40 Wendy And in the morning, I must have rushed out and I forgot to grab them and put it in my like brush canister. 25:46 Wendy I just like left. Yeah, and I got to set and I was like, holy moly, what do I do now? 25:51 Wendy Okay, yeah, so I was just like convincing the client like, oh, you know, it's like, I think I'm gonna use my fingers a lot today. 26:01 Given You had to improvise? 26:03 Wendy Yeah, you have to improvise a lot. And I was like, okay, I had— I still had sponges, you know, it's just the brushes that I don't have. 26:09 Wendy Like, fingers are tools too, right? So that's what I'm saying about how like you just have to be quick on your feet. 26:16 Wendy And like, you know, worst comes to worst, I could have gone to Shoppers and buy myself a whole new set But I was like, why would I spend $100 on something I already have that I don't need? So I was like, okay, I think I can make it work. 26:28 Given You gotta be adaptable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there like a specific look that you've done or somebody you've worked with specifically that really stood out or was important to you? 26:39 Wendy I think— I feel like the one image that comes to my mind right now is like one of these like nail editorial that I've done. 26:49 Derek Okay. 26:50 Wendy It was like one of those things where the photographer had amazing lighting, we had a prop stylist bring like really cool props that like— and I had an idea of what she was gonna bring because I made 27:05 Wendy nails in advance that sort of like— That matched the vibe? 27:09 Wendy Yeah, that would go well with that. But seeing it come together in person, and we had a hand model And she was also— she understood the assignment. 27:18 Given Okay, I get you. 27:19 Wendy Everything just like came out, and I was like, oh my God, you guys, it looks so good. 27:23 Wendy Okay, it looks so good. And this is straight out of camera. 27:26 Wendy Yeah, there is no editing, there is nothing. And I was like, oh my God, I already know this is gonna be like fire. 27:32 Given The bomb. 27:33 Wendy Yeah, so that shot actually won an award. 27:35 Given That's amazing. 27:36 Derek Okay, congratulations. 27:36 Wendy So I feel like that was probably like one of those moments where like it all I was so happy that day with the way everything turned out because it was also like something that I creative directed, 27:50 Wendy sort of. So I had all these like ideas and I put together the team. 27:55 Wendy Me and the photographer spoke about it and we brought in a prop stylist and the 3 of us had this group call and like it was like, you know, like all 3 personalities also kind of like meshed together so well. 28:08 Given Blended. 28:08 Wendy And we're all bouncing off of each other's like ideas. 28:11 Wendy It's just like cool, you know, because I think a lot of these shoots are about teamwork. So yeah, it was really cool. 28:18 Given So do you think that is your element, like when you get to work with other creatives that really get your vision? 28:24 Wendy Yeah, I think so. I think like when I have this like moments where I'm like, oh yeah, I know I'll be working with like this stylist, this photographer, like everything's gonna be like awesome. 28:34 Wendy Like when people are also receptive to your ideas, right? 28:38 Wendy Like And sometimes, you know, we also have like other type of creative that are like, oh, they have their vision and they brought you in so that you could execute, which is fine too. 28:49 Wendy I'm fine being like told like, oh, this is what I'm looking for. 28:52 Wendy I'm like, sure, let's do that, you know. And like there's usually a bit of wiggle room because it's like you can bring in an inspo, it may not turn out 100% like what you imagine because you have to be realistic, right? 29:05 Derek Yeah. 29:05 Wendy Sometimes it's just not possible, or sometimes there's like other circumstances, you know. 29:11 Wendy You want this like smooth, shiny hair, but I'm like, it's humid out, it's not gonna happen. 29:16 Wendy We gotta pivot and maybe like, you know, do a little bit of wind and like make it messy instead, or bring out the natural curls. Like, you just have to— 29:26 Given Be willing to change your mind sometimes. 29:28 Wendy Exactly, you have to pivot depending on the situation. 29:32 Given Now, you've actually worked across different, like, editorial magazines, so Sharp and Chatelaine. 29:39 Given I think even some advertising campaigns with Joe Fresh or Canada Goose. 29:45 Given Do those different worlds call for a very different mindset, or do you kind of have the same flow? 29:50 Wendy Oh, for sure. I think it's like, it's different when you're going in and you're doing like an editorial campaign, you have to put your editorial hat on. 30:01 Wendy And then if you're going in and you're doing, like, say, like, your regular advertising, like, oh, this is for, like, a medicine company, you know, where, like, makeup and hair is definitely not the focus. 30:13 Given Okay. 30:13 Wendy So, like, if you're doing an editorial, then it's about, like, you know, this, like, general— I mean, or any job really, it's about, like, the general aesthetic. 30:23 Wendy And like, what do I think the makeup and hair should look like? 30:28 Wendy You know, sometimes the clients will just give me like a general vision and like, you do what you think is best, right? 30:33 Wendy So I think it's like, you know, like if it's like, if we're trying to advertise like jackets, for example, then maybe like sometimes like the hair off so you can see like the neckline, you know what I mean? 30:44 Derek Yeah. 30:44 Wendy You have to like see it from the client's perspective. 30:47 Wendy What are we trying to sell? Yeah, okay, I get you. 30:50 Given Do you feel like within your art, is there one specific part of it that really resonates with you most? Like doing makeup or like fashion or nails? 31:00 Wendy I think makeup will always be my first love. 31:02 Given Okay. 31:03 Wendy Yeah, I definitely— makeup. I can do makeup with my eyes closed, you know? Okay. 31:08 Given Yeah, like, do you even do your own when you're— 31:12 Wendy Um, I do, yeah. I think You know what I've learned over the years is like, for a couple years, I think I was kind of like doing my makeup literally the same way every day. 31:24 Wendy Winged liner, blah blah blah. Like, it's like on autopilot and I don't think about it. 31:28 Wendy But I started filming myself, like making all this like content, and I was like, you know, now I kind of like have to change the way I look. 31:35 Wendy No, I can't just be doing the same makeup like for everything. 31:40 Given You gotta upgrade. 31:41 Wendy It's so challenging to see myself differently all the time. 31:47 Wendy And I'm like, I think that's kind of cool. It's like, oh, maybe today I want to do this Zendaya look. 31:53 Wendy And I was like, wow, I actually really like that. 31:55 Wendy You learn a lot about yourself and also about how you can be better for your next job. 32:01 Given Do you find that's part of how you define your creative direction? 32:06 Wendy I think so. Makeup, I think, is such a— ever-evolving, you know, like industry, and there's always like new products, new innovative like textures and whatnot, and then new techniques, and like, you 32:19 Wendy know, trends come and go. So I feel like you always have to, um, just be open to change. 32:27 Given Yeah. What does a typical week for you look like? 32:31 Wendy Oh, that's a hard one. 32:32 Given Because I imagine like some people are interested in like your lifestyle. 32:37 Wendy It's so different every week, you know, like as a freelancer in general, you, you have like your busy months or busy weeks, and like some weeks you're like so dead, you're like, oh my God, did the 32:49 Wendy whole world forget about me, you know? And so on a typical, like regular busy week, I would say I work maybe 3, 4 times a week. 32:58 Given Okay. 32:59 Wendy Yeah, but then sometimes when it's really, really busy, I could work 7 days a week. 33:04 Wendy Like, sometimes, you know, you have people having events on weekends. 33:08 Given Yeah, like multi-day bookings. 33:10 Wendy Multi-day bookings. Or, um, sometimes it's just like, you know, we have to shoot a commercial on location, it's only available on a weekend. 33:19 Wendy Yeah, whatever the reason is, sometimes it's 7 days a week, sometimes it's 0 times a week, you know. So it all kind of balances out. 33:26 Given And because you, like, you basically, you're working for yourself and you have your own kind of Business in a sense. 33:33 Given Is there like a version of burnout that you can experience, or like how do you avoid feeling that? 33:40 Wendy I think for me a burnout is like when I've been doing too much like, you know, like work that are like— I don't want to say it like— it's just like not super rewarding if you're doing something 33:54 Wendy that's like so repetitive, like e-com e-com world or like just doing like advertising. 34:00 Wendy And once in a while when I feel like, oh God, I'm like in a rut, I'm like, you know, kind of like, I just like, you know, put together like a mood board on Pinterest or whatever. 34:14 Wendy And like, you know, I always have like an inspo folder that I keep, and I'll go to it and be like, maybe it's time to shoot some colorful things. 34:22 Wendy So I'll hit up my photographer friends and maybe like, oh, let's plan a shoot together next weekend or something. 34:32 Given Yeah. 34:32 Wendy And yeah, I feel like doing shoots for myself like that, that's not a job. 34:39 Wendy It's more like we all benefit from this one shoot and have something for our book. 34:45 Wendy It's so important to avoid burnout. Yeah, because then you come out of it and you're like, wow, okay, now I remember why I love makeup again. 34:54 Given I hear you. And how do you deal with some of those more annoying things like the invoicing and scheduling and that kind of stuff? Is it mainly agencies? 35:05 Wendy It's just part of it. Yeah, sometimes it's mostly the agency handles it, but I still have to do like those emailing things like that too, which I've never been good at that side of the industry. 35:17 Wendy That's why I have an agent and they just do all that. 35:21 Wendy But yeah, I think it's like sometimes people ask for things over email and you just have to meet them in the middle. 35:30 Given Yeah. 35:31 Wendy But not totally— like, you can't be rude ever. You always have to be diplomatic in a way. 35:39 Given Okay. 35:39 Wendy Western also, if you, uh, you just have to stay your ground. 35:43 Wendy If they're like, oh my God, that's like, this rate is like way too low, like, I can't like go that low, but we can meet you here. 35:51 Given Okay. 35:51 Wendy Yeah. 35:51 Given I get you. What would you tell a future, like, or even a biology student now who's in their 3rd, maybe 4th year, who would be interested in, in doing something more creative, but they're in science 36:05 Given right now, like They're scared to take it seriously. So what would you— what would your advice be? 36:10 Wendy I mean, I think that you can still, like, you know, take something from your science, like, background and bring it into something creative, right? 36:20 Wendy It's like your problem-solving skills and maybe, like, the ability to, like, analyze things. 36:25 Wendy So it's not like one or the other. Maybe you can find a way to combine both. 36:30 Derek Yeah. 36:30 Given Do you think having a science background Even for yourself, kind of gives you an edge over some of your competition in some ways? 36:38 Wendy Maybe, maybe. I think, I think it does actually. I think it's like, you know, I've always been like, um, like I can, like I think logically and, um, yeah, like I said, just like problem solve. 36:53 Wendy And, um, you have to like also see things from like a different perspective. 36:58 Given Yeah. 36:59 Wendy Yeah. 36:59 Given And then what's next for you? Is there like a project or client upcoming or somebody you really want to work with? 37:06 Wendy Well, I'll tell you my dream job, actually. 37:09 Given Yeah. 37:10 Wendy My dream job is to do BTS's nails. Okay. 37:14 Given You know what? You should— they dropped an album recently. 37:18 Derek Yeah. 37:18 Given There's a song on it I like, Swim. 37:22 Wendy Yeah. 37:22 Given I like that one. 37:23 Wendy Yeah. So, you know, if they ever need a manicurist, well, let me know. 37:27 Given They know who to hit up. Well, thank you so much, Wendy, for your time. 37:31 Wendy Yeah, my pleasure. 37:31 Given That's been it for today's episode of the So You Studied Bio podcast. 37:36 Given Thank you for tuning in, and definitely be sure to check out the next episode. 38:37 Derek Wendy's story is a reminder that earning a biology degree doesn't lock you into one path. 38:42 Derek Her transition into fashion and beauty didn't happen overnight. 38:45 Derek It came from trying out new things, stepping out of her comfort zone, and building her career one opportunity at a time. 38:52 Derek And even though Wendy works in a completely different industry today, skills she developed through science, like problem-solving, attention to detail, and adaptability, still play a role in her work 39:02 Derek today. It's a great reminder that the value of your degree isn't limited to just your job title. 39:08 Derek A huge thank you to Wendy for sharing her journey and giving us a look into a career many biology students may have never considered. 39:14 Derek Thanks for watching the Soy Study Bio podcast, and we'll see you in the next episode. Take care.
